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[UI] Rework of the speed logic in DarkOrbit

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Zecora, Apr 16, 2018.

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  1. Zecora

    Zecora Old Hand

    Greetings dear Community,

    I've been thinking about this for a rather long time now and I increasingly come across the problem that speed logic in this game doesn't make sense. To make my point clear, here is the following issue: A battle cruiser ship (Goliath & sister versions, especially surgeon and cyborg) is almost equally as fast as a star fighter class ship (vengeance + pusat). Or even worse, a recon class ship (Spearhead). The question is: Is this right?

    That's a small problem I see in the game logic. Most speed values are diminished by the Tartarus, which admittedly receives a nerf, but still counts as of now. With a heavy battle cruiser taking the lead of the speed contest, something is definitely off.

    Problem: Speed values don't make sense. At all.

    Now, to encounter this problem we have to think up why certain ships should be superior to others in terms of speed and how it would affect the balance.

    The Spearhead should be the fastest ship. It already lacks in Hitpoints. That it lacks in actual speed is an additional problem which contributes to the low usage of it. Especially right now where the damage numbers already reach insane heights, I find it only fair if Speed values do the same. A little sarcasm behind this. But at the same time not far from the truth.

    As extreme as it might sound, raising the speed of the Spearhead from 370 to 400 would actually be appropriate. This would lead to a top-speed of 624 without wheel. Compared to Cyborg with a top speed of 552 this would be a difference of 72 speed. This would be noticeable. Compared to the current 42 Speed difference.

    For the Vengeance the speed should be raised up from 380 to 495. The Vengeance would reach a top speed of 594. Compared to the spearhead this would be a difference of 30 Speed. Compared to Cyborg this would be a speed difference of 42. The Pusat would have the same increase as the normal Vengeance. So the Vengeance Pusat would have a speed increase from 370 to 385. The top speed would be 606. Compared to Vengeance, it's barely 12 more, but 18 less than spearhead.

    Now to explain the balance of this... We have enough slowing opportunities. DCR and Ice Rocket being the ranged variant if we exclude Goliath X. Slow Mine being the stationary variant. Besides, while the Spearhead is the fastest ship, the Vengeance can keep up with it. At some point. The Vengeance has a higher fire power and a better defense. So the Spearhead would only have to truly fear the Vengeance, the Vengeance would have to fear the Goliath as it is still a little slower than the Spearhead, if only minimal.

    To explain my point: It's important to keep a certain logic in this game. A fast ship - or a supposedly fast ship - should not be slower or equally as fast as heavier ships. Especially with the nowadays balance it's hard to keep track of the minor values, speed being a minor value.

    I believe that after the Tartarus nerf the new fastest ships will and should be the above mentioned ones. But at the same time... They both have a lack in firepower + survivability. Which makes them to easy-to-destroy targets. But also very agile which makes destroying them a challenge itself.

    This would also synergize well with the Fusion shields. A hit-and-run tactic would be possible and perhaps would also become a valid tactic.

    Please consider this idea for a moment before you rant about potential balance breaks. The balance is already broken and beyond repair, and the Meta will remain the Goliath + sister ships - unfortunately. Give Spearhead and Vengeance a good use as well. It can only help.

    Regards ~
     
    thor714 likes this.
  2. Wirwerdenniesosein

    Wirwerdenniesosein Someday Author

    I sympathize with your frustration of Dark Orbit's speed logic, and I think you're off to a good start by having a mindset of wanting to balance the speed factor of the game. I think the reworking of all these ship's speed would be an inefficient use of time. There is a post called 'the emerging light,' or something along those lines, where its been announced that ships will be balanced in the next update (hopefully after the server merges).
     
  3. Zecora

    Zecora Old Hand

    I know about the upcoming balance patch. Problem being that except for the Tartarus speed reduction there is nothing else in terms of speed balance. Alright, the Hammerclaw receives a little speed buff.

    The focus lays on the abilities right now, at least according to the 'Emerging Light' thread. While abilities sure need a balancing, so does speed, damage, defense values and so on. Fights end fast, a proper balance isn't really available right now, the gap widens between the newer players and the old veteran players. We have many problems that need resolving.

    Speed values being a rather minor part of the balance in the game. And they are changed rather quickly. The only thing that wouldn't go fast is a confirmation and testing of the applied changes.

    While speed looks fragile, it really isn't. Many games you play will have some balance with speed. A tank will never be as fast as a scout car. A destroyer ship will never be as fast as a motorized boat. Same should apply to the Goliath and Spearhead/Vengeance balance. A spearhead shouldn't struggle too much with escaping a cyborg as example.

    At least this is my opinion.
     
    thor714 likes this.
  4. thor714

    thor714 Active Author

    i agree.the spearhead's purpose is not battle and it should be able to escape from one.
     
  5. HelpMeHelpYou

    HelpMeHelpYou All knowing Oracle

    @Zecora your thoughts do have some merit, however, the speeds need to be stable for the BASIC Ship (a Vengeance is a Vengeance whether a Lightning or Pusat) and the extra speeds given because you use this design should not vary from the Base plus extra slot/ability. I do support the idea that the Spearhead should be the FASTEST ship in the fleet as it is defenseless and the Vengeance Lightning should be the only ship that is able to keep up with it (when afterburner is used). The Tartarus ship should not be allowed to benefit from any Drone Formations if the Speed is toggled on as the Drones should be attached for the extra speed to be active and thus the formation chosen is ineffective or the speed boost is not functioning with the drones deployed, this speed cap should be between the Vengeance and Spearhead base speeds and again the only way to exceed the base speeds is with the Wheel Drone Formation and Drones deployed (but every Pilot has the choice to own the formation).

    D O should never have changed from the "Original Ship Concept" as they introduced the NEW Ships and abilities (they did not when introducing the Goliath Skill Designs), nor should a player have to make a choice over a ship they have enjoyed for years just because D O has decided they need to create a NEW ship to induce players to BUY something they otherwise would not, even worse is the NERFING of them after they have proven to be imbalanced in actual game play, without the ability of the owners of these "nerfed ships" to get their Uridium/Cash back from the purchase of the Original Ship.
     
  6. ]Coldheart[

    ]Coldheart[ Forum Master

    I would really like it if there was a bit more differences in place.
    Example (I will disregard ship types of Phoenix, Liberator, Yamato, Defcom, Nostromo, Piranha)
    Top End speed, without use of any 'speed enhancement boosts', imho, should be from fastest down:
    Spearhead
    Vengeance
    Tartarus
    Aegis
    Goliath
    Leonov
    BigBoy
    Citadel

    However, once a speed boost is in place the order shifts to:
    Tartarus
    Vengeance (Lightining only)
    Spearhead
    Vengeance (all others)
    Goliath (Surgeon only)
    Citadel
    Goliath (all others)
    Aegis
    Leonov
    BigBoy

    Now as far as the drone formations go, I was under the impression that the 'docking' position on the Tartarus was eye candy only to reduce a possible graphic handling issue due to speed changes (if flying that fast, why worry what the formation looked like, especially if you are not in the habit of always seeing your drones and others ?)

    ... but as usual, I am sure this opinion will get jumped on by many .... :(
     
    Undertest likes this.
  7. Zecora

    Zecora Old Hand

    Well... I'm not sure if you count up the truth right now or your own suggestion. Because with this list we would face the same issue again. The Tartarus should not be the fastest ship by any means, even with it's speed boost active. As a heavy battle cruiser it should serve as a heavy artillery which deals periodic damage. The Tartarus should be feared in a group. In fact, I feel like the Tartarus should receive a +25% Rocketlauncher damage stat while Speedboost is inactive. This would encourage people to use the rapid fire ability more, but also have speed boost disabled. The periodic damage you could reach with HSTRM-01 missiles, speed boost inactive and rapid fire would be amazingly destructive, yet balanced due to the lack of speed. Let me count up the speed values I personally have in mind (After the balance patch).

    I give no guarantees for correct calculations.
    SHIPSSPEEDSPEED WITH ABILITY
    Spearhead
    624​
    -​
    Vengeance Lightning
    594​
    748​
    Vengeance
    594​
    -​
    Cyborg & Surgeon
    552​
    -​
    Goliath
    540​
    -​
    Aegis
    540​
    -​
    Tartarus
    444​
    577​
    Citadel
    528​
    540​
    Leonov
    504​
    528​
    BigBoy
    492​
    -​

    What I mostly have in mind with this is that ships will have their respective role. My plan is to enhance the class experience and to give them their respective role. Goliath obviously serving as the damage dealer and destroyer. Spearhead serving as the disabler/recon ship able to outrun damage. The Vengeance serving as a hunter ship. High speed, medium damage. Tartarus being the artillery ship which can also turn into a fast moving hunter ship but with reduced damage.

    And believe me if I tell you that the Tartarus will be a well used ship if the above suggestion would be considered. Speed wouldn't even matter in this case as the periodic damage would serve a very good job. Because with HSTRM-01 Rockets and the ability you could deal 75.000 damage in 3 shots within 5 seconds. Additional to the laser damage that is.
     
  8. Deter

    Deter User Team Darkorbit

    Hello,

    Due to the inactivity of this idea it will be close, archived and listed on the Update&Idea Pool index.

    Closing as inactive, archived and set to Index.
     
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