SW/R needs reworked stuns for PvP

I've played a lot of PvP the last couple weeks (I started about 1.5 months ago). Here's what I've noticed as far as balance goes between SW and Rangers. I haven't really played much with DK or SM so I'll reserve any detailed judgment. Obviously $ will make any class very strong, but I'm sticking to the basics and focusing on the stunning part which is half of what PvP is about.

SWs are definitely overpowered in stuns and attack power. Their Frost Wind is so forgiving when used because anyone can cast it without seriously aiming and still capture a few players (seen this so many times). On top of that, it slows down movement by 50% which is basically like another stun. I personally think this skill should have narrower and shorter range or just remove the slowing movement by 50% part. The Frost Nova move radius is a bit too big in my opinion. I've been stunned even outside its radius which doesn't make sense, and it too can slow movement by 50%. The range on this needs to fit only within the blast radius, and not stun people slightly outside of it. Since SWs have both stunning and slowing skills that easily catch others, it's pretty much easy death for those trapped. Because SWs are group controls type class, they always have the edge in PvP.

As for Rangers, they are powerful in dmg but weak when it comes to stuns. The Net is somewhat useless in PvP because any player that can see it coming can effortlessly dodge it, even if the player does not see it, the chances of it landing is very low. The time to cast and for the Net to actually land is too long, whereas SWs can teleport in (up close and personal) and whip one of their stuns and kill you on the scene. I've been stopped many times in the action of casting my Net, because I get stunned first by fast casting SWs that whip it instantaneously. Come on, where's the fairness for Rangers? Bird of Prey is fine because of it's high dealing dmg, if it lands which it does about 33% of the time. Honestly, I wish Net was remade like Spiderman casting a big web enclosing all targets within a fixed radius and whoever it hits first. Instead of going up and over, it would be straightforward. If SWs can slow down stunned targets, then why can't Rangers slow down targets with both Net and Bird of Prey instead of one or the other?

DKs can do stun ok, but I think they need longer lasting stuns or bigger range. But I must say, they are quite fast and can jump around or take huge beatings.

SM? That class is just sad. They are great at stealing flags and running but can't do much at lower levels (or even at higher levels to some extent).

I know you'll have differing views because of your playing style(s) and understanding of the classes, but this is solely my opinions on the imbalanced aspect of the game. It really has me riled up during PvP matches just because it seems unfair, and it really is to some extent.

 

Try stun breaks.

 

Instead of typing useless a comment, why not elaborate what you mean? If you're referring to Indomitable on the Fame Tree, this thread isn't about using skills that remove negative effects, it's about the fairness of stunning between classes. Stay on topic.

 

Take it from somebody who has been playing the game a bit longer than yourself. Try out stun breaks, then continue the discussion on stuns in PvP.

 

spiro_spula is right, "stun-balance" isn´t everything. Stunbreaks is what matters the most.

And come on, this topic is pretty pathetic, ofcourse rangers have bad and slow stuns, in PvP they can deal insane dmg in 1-2 shots if only they know how to mark their opponent.

As always, every class has weaknesses and strengths, rangers do a lot of dmg in short time but lack stuns. Deal with it, go for another class or just leave the game.

If BP actually give them better stuns, we end up with rangers as an completely OP class.

 

I think if rangers had slightly faster stun processing it would not imbalance the classes. I'm talking 1/4 to 1/3 seconds faster here: maybe just the net, the bird may be fine as it is now. The net is definitely slow, though.

Other than that, the classes are well balanced I think. Maybe SM are a little weak on defense, but there aren't enough well developed ones on my server to really tell for sure. DK and SW are well matched. Given that a DK and a SW both have end-game equipment, similar gems and well-developed PvP skills/tactics; either one can win against the other one.

This is coming from a long-time DK player, but I'm trying to be objective toward the other classes.

 

Work your fame tree. If archers would get any instant stuns, it would be unplayable for SW's against them. Archers compensate for that with more defence and terrible damage that kills SW in 1 or 2 shots if well aimed. SW compensate their extreme squishiness with good damage, fast AOE's / crowd control.

I played all classes. My main is a SW and I must agree, SW are a little OP with scorching fireballs, instant teleport and stuns and all but the game changes with stunbreak. Archers, and all classes for that matter, will get out of a stun and will be immune to the other one for 4 seconds or so, which is a lot of time in a fast pace PvP match. My tip to other classes vs SW's: get speed boots and choose the 20% speed in competition, not the damage. Make them react and wait till they try to land a stun first or right after a teleport. If they do so, then charge them. Lots of archers kills me if they anticipate my movement well. The key is speed here, lots of it. DK without speed is useless against a full fledge SW. If they are slow, there's nothing they can do unless the SW is unskilled or inexperienced. Be aggressive and unpredictable, BE THE ONE WHO KNOCKS. Dictate the pace of the match, play your own game. If you complain here about PvP, it means that you don't.

One more thing that annoys me vs an archers. Their wolves last longer and they are 3 of them. I see a lot of archers using that to hide behind them (same way a sw hides behind is guardian) but the archers definitely have an edge over that skill. Lots of time the guardian will agro 1 or 2 of them and the third wolf slip pass and run after me. That's annoying because they will often block a fire ball.

You say you been playing for a month and a half, that's not a lot at all. Go against players that have been farming low lvl dungeons for a year (or uses a gapper) and are all legendary with insane amount of gops. You have no chance. Go farm for 3-6 months and don't level up if you want any chances in the big league. Otherwise have fun loosing all your matches when the real farmers hit the PvP.

Have fun and hope this tread will help you out a little.

 

As a DK, I love when a Ranger summons wolves. Those are three targets I can use to fill up my health

 

If you MC a wolf that has a healing effect, it does +200% damage from MC and heals you (the SW) as its owner/controller a percentage of damage dealt. If your HP gets dangerously low MC one wolf and cast singularity on the other 2, add ice bolt if possible to pin. They will just fight there until your wolf wins, healing you up in the process.

 

None of you guys are getting it. This is not about the fame tree. I don't know anything that is called "stun breaks", but there are skills called "Defiance, Determination, Indomitable" that help get you out of stuns, but that's beside the point. You guys are saying that Rangers are balanced (or overpowered) because of their overwhelming power, that's only if someone buy a lot of offensive type gems and/or has upgraded their gear well, besides that's only if the target is marked and the slow precision shot can actually land on a moving target. If the net was just a little faster, it wouldn't be so bad. Keep in mind that SWs can use both stuns in 15 secs (or 20 depending on EXP tree), whereas Rangers have a 30 seconds on Bird of Prey and 12 secs on a unreliable Net.

I've seen teams of mostly SWs and non SWs play against each other, who do you think wins and why? Most cases, it's the mostly SWs team.

And Hartvig, I don't think this topic is so pathetic as you think. Rangers, in general, are not that powerful. I honestly do believe SWs have the edge against Rangers or any class in PvP. They have teleport, two stuns (both with slowing effects), Ice Missile, and Singularity. That is overpowered itself. I have a SW in reserve to start owning in PvP. SWs too can 1-2 shot opponents without having to "mark" their opponents in comparison to your Ranger comment.

I agree with Multi-Sev on the 1/4 - 1/3 sec faster net. Just that much would make a huge difference.

Anyway, thank you all for the comments. It does help me understand more about the balance, but it's still not quite as balanced as I think it should be. The stunning ratio by SW/R is like 3:1, respectively.

 

Jet, you opened the thread saying you have been playing for a month an a half and yet here you are accusing people who have been playing for some three years that "none of us are getting it." The game is supposed to be balanced at endgame, not at the start or somewhere in the middle. You have not got to the endgame yet so you don't have all the information needed to make accurate conclusions. It's like reading a book half way through and arguing about the content with the people who have read the book several times. Stuns get sorted out at endgame with everybody more or less immune, the only thing that's really breaking the balance in PvP is cash. At least that's the way I see it after some 3 years of play.

 

First, as spiro_spula said, you have played this game for 1,5 months. Endgame cannot be reached before at least 6 months of farming.
Which means, ATM you don´t have any idea of how it is in endgame.

And it´s also claerly proved that you don´t know endgame when you write "but that's beside the point" to stun-breaks.
Stun-breaks means everything in endgame PvP, you can´t live without it. And ofcourse it´s not offtopic, we are disucussing balance and stun-balance between classes, stun-breaks means a lot to exactly that balance.

If you had stun-break, you wouldn´t complain nearly as much about mage´s crowd-control, because with stun-break it isn´t nearly as big a problem.

And when it comes to mage´s against any other class, i as a DK, is crushing and killing mages all along in PvP, but having a hard time to kill rangers, even though they are all very much like me in stats and fame.

As far as i can see, mages are the poor ones in PvP, but then again, there comes a mage with 7k hp, 2,5k armor, 1k dmg, 2.0 speed and so on.

What matters in balance between classes is luck, money and farming.