paying players vs non paying players

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by LordDefiant, Jun 18, 2015.

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  1. Morinphen

    Morinphen Forum Overlooker

    First off, we need to make something clear: P2P is one thing, P2W is another. The first one (Pay To Play) means you have to offer money in order to gain ACCESS. DSO is not like that since registration is free. On the other hand, the other (Pay To Win) means that you use money to acquire currency, items and whatever else you can in order to "become" strong (in other words, lazily purchasing your way to greatness). Yeah, maybe some people add a little money in their character every once in a blue moon because they happen to have some money to spare on a game - that is not P2W; if they do it repeatedly and in high amounts, then it is P2W.

    OK, now onto the subject of whether a free player can surpass a payer. To put it simply, no. In theory, a non-paying player could surpass a paying one IF the former spends a lot of time playing/grinding/farming/etc. while the latter does not. But let's be real, if you're throwing in lots of cash in but a past-time, then you are going to spend a lot of time, maybe even more than a free player, since you get the "well, I paid so I might just as well make the most of it" idea - even more so if we're talking getting Premium. Nobody's gonna pay for say, a month, and then proceed to only play for a couple of days in that period. Sure, you could be a real veteran non-payer and would potentially be better than the fresh P2W, but that P2W will be able to climb past you way easier than it took you to get there in the first place.
    Agreed. Except the very last sentence. While it is not incorrect, there is one thing that differs: how people think of you. Paying for 100k Ander is no impressive feat (people would rather call it irresponsible money spending), but farming such an amount is pretty darn impressive, if it's true (i.e. the one who claims to have done it is not lying). That's my subjective opinion, at least.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
    Darwarren likes this.
  2. sirsquishy

    sirsquishy Junior Expert

    I've spent the last decade playing subscription games where everyone pays to play so my perspective might be slightly different than others. Since joining this game, the term "pay to win" gets thrown around a lot. Personally I find it a little funny since you cannot "win" anything despite how much you spend, but I get the gist of what everyone is talking about.

    Those who buy gems and gops will be able to rule the pvp part of this game for the most part. Although some of the most vocal about p2w also state that pvp isn't the main point of this game.

    In my limited time, I have found that no matter how much you pay, you'll still need to farm for gear as the best gear isn't based on spending. Throwing in royal gems into crappy still leaves you with crappy gear, so there is no payable option for removing the grind.

    I guess the whole paying thing is just more important to those who play "free" games. If I came onto the forum and stated that I dropped a grand at the local casino or how about if I spend that grand on a stereo system for my car does that make me a bad person? Why strangers judge me on how I spend my money is a little beyond me, however if for whatever reason I chose to drop that same grand into the game all of the sudden I become bad person?

    If someone chooses to spend their money on a game, knock yourself out, have fun however you like to have fun. Personally I like to waste my money on other non essential things, but I don't judge someone on their choice of fun.

    Games for the most part are supposed to be fun and sometimes provide a much needed competition factor, but regardless in the end it's just a game. It's not really a measurement of accomplishments or disappointments in life.
     
  3. Morinphen

    Morinphen Forum Overlooker

    You don't win directly, instead you make it way easier for yourself by paying. So yeah, you have a point... it's more like P2HIE (Pay To Have It Easier)... but I guess P2W is easier for reference to F2P.

    PvP as well as PvE are both important parts of the game. They affect each other, and the game offers everyone the chance to have a go at both.

    Yes, you're right. Even payers farm, but, for example, Artifact Merchant uniques are satisfactory starting points for the lazy payer (more often than not, they're not, but still - I've seen some people, albeit rarely, with full-bought gear). Thing is, as a payer, one can surely find a way to at least start off way beyond the status of the regular newbie. Or, think about how a heavy payer can finish some events by simply standing in one location and keep clicking "buy".

    Again, yes... probably free players care a lot more about the payers, because the latter are better... but that's just not-so-unjustified hate towards someone who has it better than you with lesser effort. Spending that grand on the casino or whatnot would not necessarily make you a bad person... but it could be still viewed as irresponsible and/or questionable money-spending (also, since you mentioned the casino, gamblers tend not to be the greatest people... after all, gambling is a vice). Frankly, it's beyond me too why people criticize others not just for how they spend their money but also for other stuff (such as taste in music, beliefs, etc.) but I suppose that's just human nature... yeah, we're not the most wonderful of creatures :oops:.

    Of course games are supposed to be fun... though when some people are ridiculously good through ridiculously easy means, it tends to ruin the fun for those who are not.

    The trouble here is that not all payers are deserving of the general hate, but the very heavy ones stand at the root of the problem (kind of like how metal music is stereotypically associated with Satanism, when just a little fragment of the whole deal is truly in the gutter). People like you, I don't deem as P2W, since you didn't just shoot at OP status from day 1. Instead, you work hard for achieving greatness, and that's admirable, as I (and others) have told you already. Nor do I think once in a blue moon payers are P2W (take myself, I once bought 3.3k Ander via SMS because I had some extra phone credit that was going to go to waste the next day anyway - I was a payer in that I bought something, but that didn't make me P2W... LOL, barely got another inventory line with the amount). I'm sorry and I apologize if I offended anyone other than ridiculously heavy payers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  4. sirsquishy

    sirsquishy Junior Expert

    No worries Morinphen, but I may be tempted very hard to pay for a nice OP weapon if ever given the chance :D

    I'm not knocking how anyone chooses to play, it's just not exactly fair to lump everyone into one steaming pile based on how they choose to play. The last game I played allowed new players to buy their way up to max level and some chose to see them as lower class people without giving them a chance.
     
  5. ScientiaPotestasEst

    ScientiaPotestasEst Someday Author

    I like P2P players, they pay for the maintenance and the development cost of the game. Without them, F2P players won't have a game to play.

    As an exception, using myself as an example; Should I decide to get premium, I'm pretty certain that majority of the active F2P players will surpass me, because I only log on daily for the box/gem rewards (with the exception during event times), sometimes maybe do a boss run or two, or a HoD run or two.

    My favorite ARPG game's expansion is coming out next week, so I will probably spend even less time on this game + forum.

    There are premium players like that who are just waiting until their premium expires. It is one of the exceptions of F2P surpassing P2P. There are also those who play maybe an hour or two a day (or during the weekends) because they have full-time work or more important stuff in life. In those cases, F2P will surpass P2P.
     
  6. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Some F2P players are paying for the maintenance and development as well.

    If someone has more important stuff in life and plays 1-2 hours ... he/she doesn't pay for premium.
     
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