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Suggestion Bring back sapphires!

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by ΣMiwel, Nov 15, 2018.

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Do you want Sapphires to make a great comeback?

  1. Yes

    58.3%
  2. No

    41.7%
  1. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    To be fair, even if a player didn't buy a single sapphire, so they only dropped them from monsters, it's still an investment of time.


    Well that's what I meant by mentioning the flawed sapphire +0.5% speed -> lesser rune +6.0% speed conversion.

    I understand people with big sapphires feel injustice, because small sapphires will be converted into the same runes.
    But you won't lose any speed, will you? Oh you will actually, in case you've been using big sapphires together with big runes so after the conversion you'll have to store some of them unused until you have a chance to combine them. That's what you mean by overflow, which is legit.
    Right, but technically if none of the gems are converted into something weaker, BP can say "Well we've given you the same, if not better, speed value in runes, so what's the problem" :/


    I'd like to ask if the following is correct:

    Let's say I have 1.0 attack speed and I have no wisdom, no +%speed equipment, and all I have for speed are 5 polished sapphires and 5 mighty speed runes.
    So that's 5x 5% for sapphires + 5x 6% for runes, which should make my speed 1.55 att./s, is that correct?

    Now let's say I still have 1.0 attack speed and I still have the same 5 polished sapphires and 5 mighty runes. But this time the sapphires are converted according to your chart.
    So that would be 5x 0.05 + 5x 6% runes, which should make my speed 1.25 for sapphires + 30% for runes = 1.625 att./s, is that right?
     
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  2. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    I could never get the jungle costumes by drop, i had to waste andermant to get them on daily offers, now seems like they are going to be dropped again, is not fair, but i'm not crying on the forum because of that.
    I combined attack speed runes before the announcement of changes in the forum, so I've lost some runes that I will not recover because I decided to do something a week or two before the announcement.
    You speak as if you deserved more fairness than a player that creates an account after than you.
    Just as it is not fair to remove costumes from the drop and after years they return to dropping, with sapphires the same thing happens, for me it would be make fun of the players who have been playing for 2 years and have deprived them of being able to have them during that time without a logical reason.
     
  3. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    According to you, am I a foreigner without the right to vote in this game? 2 years and the knowledge of what's a sapphire for is not enough for you?
    And you DID NOT waste 100k anders on sapphires, pfff.

    It concerns me as soon as I am playing and I do not want there to be any sapphires for anyone, an opinion as valid as any and that you are trying to throw away just because you are afraid of "losing" an item and you are thinking of the value of anders that you have never paid to give you more importance xD
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  4. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    I absolutely understand why you guys are mad. It never feels good to lose something, let alone something so valuable.

    But with that said, @MaxDisappointed is kind of right here about the principle that every now and then the devs decide to to make a change that results in giving people something relatively cheap that was very hard to obtain before. It's quite common and can be expected.
    Then I think those who worked hard to get it feel kind of robbed, and it's a rightful sentiment.
    So what I mean is that not only in case of sapphires, but also in case of other, less valuable things, such conversions, sales, etc. should not be happening. Like for example, if the prices haven't changed on the test server, the black bear should not sell for so much less badges of honor. Players who bought it before had to spend like 10 times more or so :/
     
    Hetsunien and MaxDisappointed like this.
  5. couda22

    couda22 Regular

    It does not. The price of dailybuild version is gone. Current price is 15M.
     
    Akageshi likes this.
  6. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    I was secretly hoping to get it cheap xD ...
    But yeah, it's only fair it stays expensive.
     
  7. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    I never had, but who said I never saw one? I'm not idiot i understand what's a sapphire for and how it works.
    I had to grow my char without them. In other words, I know that sapphires are not necessary so I don't want them, not after been locked for years, not now. Ever or never, but turning things on and off for pleasure for me is:
     
  8. Ahhh I wish I was one of those who never visited the forum.

    I got baited into it... big mistake on my end.




    I am out of this thread.. it's literally overflowing with ignorance and stupidity. So please save yourself some time and don't quote me anymore.. you will be ignored.
     
  9. Dragonnns

    Dragonnns Board Veteran

    There is a huge difference between paying for a costume and paying for something that adds to your skill set. Take away my costume and I can still kill monsters the same. Take away my sapphires, maybe not so much.

    I haven't done the math on this, but what if the sapphires were broken down to the smallest rune? So if I had a sapphire that had been leveled up once, instead of getting one rune, I would get three of the smallest runes. It would then be up to each player to figure out how many runes they wanted to create and at what level. Any unusable runes could then be sold for andermant at the cost of the lowest sapphire on a 50% off sale.
     
  10. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Apples and oranges here. You quote me talking about 4x royal sapphires "worth" nearly two million andermant and then compare that to a guy who said that it was easy to get polished and radiant sapphires. That is a "worth" of between 32k and 90k ander, with a polished or radiant being worth 1.3% or 3.7% of a royal. By that metric, Please_enter_a_name is 100% correct that getting decent sapphires was easy, but by no means refutes that the highest quality sapphires were incredibly expensive, either with an investment of andermant, or time. No, I did not spend 1.9 million andermant on mine. I bought gems on sale. I got some as drops. I used the few Jewels of Enhancement that we received to speed up the process. But none of that changes the fact that BigPoint assigned them a subjective value of 486k andermant. What we are going to get for the BP assigned value of nearly half a million andermant is an insulting amount of runes that do not adequately reflect the value of what they are taking from us.

    My issue is not with speed loss. I'll maintain about the same speed (after I improve a couple more runes), and I'll actually gain crit in the process because my slots in the decoration will open up. My single biggest complaint is that they are not adequately compensating players for the gems that they are converting. I'm in agreement with Dragonnns' sugestion. Break the sapphires down to flawed sapphires, convert that into a "fair" amount or lowest tier runes, and then let us have a one time sell off opportunity (for andermant) to get rid of the overflow. Hell, I'd even be satisfied if they refunded us andermant for the sapphires at 50% of their value (the highest % off sale) and then let us chose what to do with those resources. I'd convert one, and take the rest as andermant.

    As other's have pointed out, 10k ander spent for a purely cosmetic item can not be compared to hundreds of thousands of andermant spent on something functional that is not being handled in a fair manner. You're arguments all seem to be apples to oranges comparisons and suggest that you lack the knowledge to argue intelligently on this topic.
    Again, apples to oranges. Along a similar line of "complaint," I bought 8k draken worth of %HPotI runes before knowing we'd be getting the second tier rune for 2400 draken after the update. I'm not complaining about that. That is a natural change to the economy of the game and my purchase was as poorly timed as your rune crafting. Oh well. Doing something because you can't see two weeks into the future is not the same as a complete meta shift and crappy conversion rate trashing hundreds of thousands of andermant worth of gems that were essential at the time and were essential for literally years of this game's life.

    A single T3 speed rune (what I'll be getting for my 486k ander gem), can be crafted after less than five moon events, or basically in two and a half months. Do you honestly think that a rune that takes two and a half months to craft is fair compensation for a gem that is worth 486 andermant and literally took years of farming to craft?
    Fine, but as I already said, I could accept the sapphires being taken from be if we were being fairly compensate, WHICH WE ARE NOT! Read the last highlighted statement. In no world is a rune that can be crafted after a couple months worth hundreds of thousands of andermant. Any opinion you have regarding the equity of the forced exchange rate is invalid because, as Heror pointed out, that part doesn't concern you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if we were being fairly compensated for our gems, then you'd complain about how the older players don't deserve hundreds of thousands of what you would consider "free" andermant. In reality, it was a long term investment that is being trashed by the developer team.
    Just because you can do something without something else doesn't mean that the "something else" doesn't have a place. There are many threads about "Build Diversity." Having speed gems (even if they are absolute speed instead of % speed) could increase build diversity. Without sapphires, and only two offensive gems, there is zero diversity when it comes to selecting gems. Obviously everyone is going to pick 5x rubies in their weapon and 5x onyxes in their decoration. As the recognized expert DSO math guy, I ran the numbers time and time again. With sapphires, there were many more ways to build a toon and tune it. Without speed gems, it makes building simpler, but not in a good way. More options is always better than less.
     
  11. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    Breaking the sapphires down to flawed and giving you an adequate number of the smallest runes sounds like the best solution (in case sapphires are really going to be removed). I'd support that.

    Also, while at it, maybe the same could be done with the conversion of the current speed runes -> new speed runes, because the conversion is, well, unfair in a similar way :/
     
  12. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    Why breaking sapphires and not runes? I've had my runes less time than you've had your sapphires.
    You admit that you are not losing anything with the change, but you want a compensation as if you had not used these sapphires for years.
    You want to gain things for free just for having a specific item -.-
    Your sapphires are more than amortized over the years, it has not been a change from one day to the next without giving you the opportunity to enjoy its benefits, you are not really in a position to ask for anything. When you go to a store, how many years of warranty do you have in a product? That warranty period has expired by far and you all know it.
    I only see spoiled attitude here demanding a compensation for something you have enjoyed for years.
     
  13. sargon234

    sargon234 Forum Ambassador

    they have been changed, don't worry but that's not comparable to Sapphires, sapphires actually costed real money
    You should then be outraged about the fact that the falcon carriot now costs 20kk fame points, which is much more than today
    Also i'm kind of pissed because i would have loved to troll people who have spent 20kk fame on the bear while showing my bear bought with only 1kk points
    They have taken away my trolling opportunities, the monsters

    Also gems have been sort of a safe investment in the game
    What they are telling now is that not even them are safe to invest in, who knows, maybe they'll decide to remove rubies in the future
    Why would i buy gems with money now, with this precedent?
     
  14. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    All the players were aware that this could happen and they accepted it in the terms and conditions.
    Those who want to enjoy the advantage from the first day will continue buying the gems or whatever it takes, enjoy the purchase because they will have it before anyone else and when devs remove it they will not complain because they knew it was something that could happen and they do not care, they were taking advantage of the item while it lasted and they do not feel that they have wasted their money because they have enjoyed it for years.
     
  15. IKILLGIANTS

    IKILLGIANTS Active Author

    removing saphires is a good thing,level things up... good job BP,finally the wishes of small players are being granted
     
    MaxDisappointed likes this.
  16. dawmjr

    dawmjr Someday Author

    i do not think fair, they can change stats on gear you have on, i worked hard for what i have, yes i paid also, im ok they change any new, but to,take your gear you worked for and perhaps , paid dearly, you wake up it is now worthless, i call it illegal , but bp , points out terms of service, so new players be warned, you be next
     
  17. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    This happens all the time, right? It's not just sapphires or runes, it's almost all your gear every time a new level cap is introduced, or new higher enchantments, and so on.



    The problem of this entire sapphire thing is just that it costed too much andermant and everyone who has spent all those hundreds of thousands of ander on sapphires and combined them all into large sapphires, now looks like a fool because if they bought just a few flawed sapphires back in the day and never combined them, they would have now gotten runes of the same value as people who spent fortune.

    Well, that's really awful.
    But I'd also like to see more fairness in items that can be simply farmed, not just things that cost real money. In fact, I would be against this sort of sapphire conversion even in case that they couldn't be purchased for real money, because farming gems in this game is not so easy so it would have costed lots of time and tedious work too. And if you do tedious work as your real life job for money that you spend in a game to buy sapphires, or if you do tedious farming in-game without going through the tedious real life job workaround, you still spend resources in general. That's why I would appreciate if no (end game) items in games became worthless or get removed eventually.
    (It would be much appreciated if all end game unique sets were flattened in terms of performance, btw.)
     
  18. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    Sapphires could be farmed, spending andermants was an option but not necessary.
    They are talking about amounts that they have not paid, nobody has paid the total and real price of a sapphire.
    And if they had not combined them to bigger sapphires they could not have enjoyed them during these YEARS as they did.
    They want to enjoy during years their big sapphires but return them to low gems when it suits them. Ha, ha.
     
  19. sargon234

    sargon234 Forum Ambassador

    yes and then why should someone sink money( or time) in this game knowing that all will be taken away at any moment?

    You do realize that this is incentivising people not to spend money in the game?

    At least if they plan to do anything like this they should give back the andermants, like they did with the crystals of truth
     
    couda22 likes this.
  20. Dragonnns

    Dragonnns Board Veteran

    How do you know what others have spent?

    At this point, I think you are just trolling to get responses. You have no valid solution to add to the conversation other than "Neener, neener, you lose out and I'm happy."

    If you don't care about them, nor need them, then you should leave the conversation to those who do have them, who do need/want them, and who wish there to be fair recompense for the years of effort/money put into developing them.
     
    MikeyMetro likes this.

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