1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Crafting skill

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Akageshi, Mar 13, 2018.

Dear forum reader,

if you’d like to actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, please log into the game first. If you do not have a game account, you will need to register for one. We look forward to your next visit! CLICK HERE
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    Hi, I'm here again to present to you another amazing game breaking idea.
    I was sure somebody must have come up with something like this before, but searching for it in the CC did result in nothing.

    Crafting in DSO is based on pure luck that can only be slightly increased by the most effective usage of the 'ingredient' items.
    Still, assuming you try to craft for instance the same 2 + 2 blue items over and over again, no matter how much gold you have spent crafting in your many years in the game, the chances for a good result (= 2 gold lines transferred) are the same.

    I suggest to add a crafting skill stat.
    • Every time you attempt to craft something, whether you accept it or revert it, your skill increases.
    • The higher the skill, the better chance to transfer gold enchantments.
    • The crafting skill has a reasonable cap.
    • Crafting 4 items of the same kind (e.g. 4 rings) would increase the skill much more than putting together any old 4 garbage items that you happen to carry at the moment.
    • Crafting a blue item increases the skill less than crafting a purple item, crafting a purple less than a legendary item etc.
    I believe this system would make you feel rewarded even if your crafting attempt failed. You'd know that even if you fail all the time, you're slowly getting better at it, so your gold is not being wasted with absolutely no effect.
     
  2. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    There it is http://www.bigpoint.com/drasaonline/board/threads/crafting-table-changes-are-needed.75086/ :p

    And I don't like it at all ... because that means you would end up with with "crappier luck" than it is the case now.
    After you get your "skill to max" you would end up to the point where you will have the same chance as you are having now without this "progressive skill".
    Why making things more complicated and harder/expensive than they are now?
     
  3. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    I don't understand how say a 25% higher chance makes your chance lower.
     
  4. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    I don't mind making crafting a bit easier. There are bunch of topics on the matter. Some of the ideas are more straightforward than this one. Here are a few:

    1. Decrease revert cost to zero.
    2. Decrease the number of ingredients to 3, and keep the existing 2 items stays when reverted. 4th ingredient being gold/ander/recipe
    3. Increase a number of items that stay to 3. (Or, add 50% chance of keeping 3 items)
    4. Introduce a chance (50% or so) of the final enchantment being transferred as oppose to random.
    5. Cut the crafting price in half.
    6. Introduce a crafting joker, an item that can be dropped from bosses, could be placed in 3-4th slot and mean no enchant to be transferred from that slot. Kind of #2 but with a special item requirement.

    Each of those is easier to understand and implement than the OP's suggestion.
     
  5. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    1. Yes. Craft fail that costed gold is a hard enough punishment already.
    3. Yes. This is even compatible with my original idea. The chance of getting the 3rd or maybe even 4th item back would increase with your crafting skill level.
    5. Lower fees or much higher coin drops in dungeons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  6. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    The original crafting 2.0 idea was to allow players to get all 4 items back. However a few extreme items were built on the test server and some people freaked out. So we ended up with the random crap 2.0 instead.

    The complete randomness is what leads many to look for cheats. Cause and effect.

    No matter what, you still need good gear drops. You still need gold. Taking 2 items only serves the purpose to frustrate players. That is it. The complete lie that not taking pieces would make everyone OP was just that.

    Some people claim that by remaining calm is the best approach to new ideas, the history of this game proves the louder the cries, the more likely the change.
     
    sargon234 and Demon like this.
  7. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    The lottery is so bad. I hate that you pay gold and keep failing + losing 50% of your crafting material.

    So I thought it'd be nice to at least have a chance to increase your crafting skill to get better results. trakilaki says it wouldn't work and that it would actually lower your chances. I don't see how... But perhaps there's some combinatorics that I don't understand.

    The idea is that you train on combining green stuff mainly that builds your % bonus in crafting. And then you start crafting stuff that you actually care about, like transferring gold lines to purple items and higher.

    If the current system is such that you always lose 2 out of 2 items in case of a fail + revert, a developed crafting skill would also increase your chance to get 3 or all 4 items back.

    I assume the devs may get worried that a hysteria growing inside of the community might result in rage quits and such. If people remain calm it looks like there's actually no problem to fix.
     
  8. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    What Traki is saying, and he knows what he is saying because he has seen those 'improvements' many times. He knows what the devs are going to do if they were to implement that kind of a system. What he suggests they would do is to lower the crafting chances by default, and let you then increase them to normal using the skill. Similar to what outlets do with the sales. Increase the price of an item by 50% and give you 30% discount).
     
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  9. wolfie54

    wolfie54 Junior Expert

     
  10. Talbor

    Talbor Forum-Apprentice

    I've seen a "Luck" factor in another game I used to play that had a crafting-type feature. It'd increase slightly (like .5-1% if i remember right) with every fail until 99 or 100%, but once you succeeded it'd reset to zero. They only had one rarity to craft though, so something like that would have to be limited to the same rarity or guys would craft cheap greens to bump the luck up & then start on higher rarities.
     
  11. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Count Count

    A better idea, imho, that is used in some very popular (and well reviewed) games is a way to improve the stats/enchantments on the gear you have. I recently read an article in a gamer publication calling this a known path of progression. The idea is to take some of the gear progress out of the hands of the prng godz and put it into the grind.

    This does not necessarily replace crafting but can exist alongside it. The concept is you farm or quest for certain resources then use those to improve the gear stats. Typically it has another cost, like gold, as part of the process.

    Personally I really enjoy building toons much more in games that have this. I should note however that one thing these other games have in common is a far greater diversity in character builds and gear choices.

    Luck be with ye,
    Mikey,
    Tegan
     
  12. This right here I think would make things so much easier in general for everyone. The OP's suggestion of this thread I am not sure I agree with because again you are trying to put hurdle in the way of others who are trying to progress by making them build skill when they will already have to learn how to craft in order to even have a slight chance of getting a decent outcome. Now if you decrease that chance by making someone have even less chance because their 'skill' is not top notch then how long will it take them to have a chance of good outcomes...it will seem like forever and they will hardly have a good chance of building good equipment.
     
  13. wolfie54

    wolfie54 Junior Expert

    Crafting, where to begin. Everyone will have their opinion and that is fine. As for me, yes it is costly, yes it takes a lot of crafted items, yes it takes an inordinate amount of time and yes above all it takes a tremendous amount of luck to get that 1 great crafted item that you always dreamed of getting. And yet with all that there is a great feeling of accomplishment when it all falls into place. Took me what seemed like forever to get a 4x gold line %idoti to transfer to my weapon but I will tell you I am proud of that. I see it as a reward for hard work farming and perseverance in the crafting process. Not saying I wouldn't be happy with a change for better odds but I'm ok with things as they are. I just think some things shouldn't be too easy to obtain as then it would cheapen their value. Just my opinion.
     
  14. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    So basically whenever someone is suggesting to add a feature, they need to always think ahead about all sorts of ways the devs could break the initial idea to make it really bad for the players and very profitable for their business model, while sort of keep a bit of it, so they can still say they have implemented something the community wanted. Well in that case every single idea can be messed up like that, be it small things like essence bags, or big things like the so demanded class balancing.

    The thing is, it's not part of my idea to lower the overall chance of a good result in order to have an upgradable crafting skill in the game. If implementing of this idea meant that the overall chances were to be lowered, then of course I don't want that feature.

    That's the idea. You start crafting early in the game by making blue items. That would increase your crafting skill the least of all possible craftings, but heck that is the basic idea in RPG's - you do small cheap stuff to slowly get better at it, and then you reach the skill level that allows you to have good results doing the real thing.

    This is cool, but it seems to me it'd pretty much replace the principle of the current crafting system, but I wanted to just suggest an improvement of the current system rather than replacing it with something far better. It would have no chance of getting into the game.

    To repeat my answer to some previous posts:
    "It's not part of my idea to lower the overall chance of a good result in order to have an upgradable crafting skill in the game."

    This means that your chance of getting a good result can only be the same or better than what it is now in the 100% random system.
    A hurdle? Only if the devs implement it upside down, meaning they lower the overall chance, so players would have to first upgrade their skill to the fullest to even have the same chance of a good result as they have now, which would of course render the whole idea absolutely pointless.

    I feel you. I feel satisfaction when I succeed after many failed attempts at... whatever, not only crafting. But you can feel the same about many other things. And better. Because if your success is in the end driven by mere luck, it still feels partly not as your own success, despite all the hard work farming etc.
     
    GoulishNightmares likes this.
  15. DocWhisky

    DocWhisky Forum Connoisseur

    Honestly, I dont think it is a lottery. I crafted 2 3/4 pinks (3 gold enchants/1 trash) and 8 2/4 pinks and out of each attempt, the crafting table ALWAYS picked the WORST lines... ALWAYS. and this happens so often that I have serious doubts as to its "randomness" It feels more scripted to me.Like it purposely seeks out the worst lines and transfers those.

    You can have 3 greens with gold enchants and 1 with ???? and 9 times out of 10 it will pick the ????.... And in my experience, it only gets worse as you go up in quality of gear.

    The crafting table here has been compared to the games in a casino... and we all know those games are engineered to give the worst possible returns to the players.

    Its one thing to tell us there are random chances, its entirely different to engineer it to give worst possible returns.

    MHO,

    Thanks, Doc.
     
    Demon likes this.
  16. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    To be quite honest, sometimes the game really feels like not picking other things randomly too. Like drops and stuff.
    I know I can almost always be certain that after having a successful attempt at the crafting table, I will have to do a lot of failed attempts till another success happens... It's like as if the program tossed me a bit of luck only to get me back to the game in hope it will repeat one day. Almost feels like a casino, I agree.

    Yes. The fact that you get completely blue enchants on a legendary item from a total of 6 golds is very upsetting. It can happen at random of course. You lose some 90 or so gold for craft + revert, you lose 2 purples each with 1 gold line - well at least I use this recipe, you know 2 golds, 2 golds, 1 gold, 1 gold.
     
  17. sargon234

    sargon234 Count Count

    They can at least let us reverse a craft and keep 3 items or even 4 items, that would be a start to make crafting a little bit easier
    Let some salty kraut whine and cry, their tears are delicious
     
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Sebastian have explained what i meant
    Exactly , that is why I am almost never buying on sale ... i have been working in the branch ... I know exactly how those tricks are working :) especially on Black Friday :D which is the scam of all scams :)
     
    Shansurri likes this.
  19. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Great Master

    I have reacted to this since Sebastian's post.
    Should that be the case, it'd make the crafting skill idea pointless, of course.

    With this in mind, we have to drop most ideas in the CC, including for instance bigger inventory or different bags. They can always use any idea about an improvement in a way to put players in disadvantage, so they have better opportunities to get more off of the beautiful business model we all love, yet they can still present it as a very cool feature we should be grateful for.

    Consider the collector's bag for example. Do I have more space to collect items? I had, right after the collector's bag introduction. A few weeks later I was where I had been. Heck they even fail at their own model, for as I wrote months ago in my amazing inventory categories post, I am willing to spend more ander on inventory expansion but there's no option to do so for me anymore as I have it fully unlocked.

    Anyway, not all sales work like that. Drakensang does not necessarily have to mess with us.
     
  20. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Here is fresh example of the 'improvement' concept in question)

    What they claim:
    'We have updated the event, so now you can get unlimited number of peridots/runes. Previously they have been limited and didn't drop once the progress has been complete'.
    What they have done
    1. Decrease the chance of the rune from 10% to 2%, or whatever.
    2. Remove the rune as a 100% from the first golden chest being open (used to be 2x 1% runes). Some can claim this a bug, but if it is, they didn't fix it then, as it has been known for two years or more.

    They have done the same with the dragan sword in the past. Claimed they let the map1 boss drop unlimited number of parts, instead of 100% fixed one. After the change, lots of people have never get even that 1 part.

    So, BP confirmed what Traki has been saying. And you are right , they indeed can bastardise every idea this way, and this is exactly what they do.

    But don't take it personally, I doubt there are many people against some sort of crafting improvement.
     
    Akageshi likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page