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Development Team Letter - CLASS BALANCING

Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by DSO Production Team, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. fab

    fab Advanced

    Spellweaver FS should be traveling at a faster rate and range like rangers EA and damage must be at their maximum.
    Dks dragon hide is simply immortal against other characters skill. ( they come inside singularity without any harm ) it just shows immune immune immune:eek:
    They uses their stun charge again repeatedly until their opponents goes down not to say rangers blade dance too they spam it again and again doing damage and not receiving damage as well.
    Anyway this game simply just not worth the time anymore to play it, I might as well wait for the lost ark to be released then I'm out of here.
    The weak becomes weaker and the strong becomes stronger LOLLLLLLLLLL:D:D:D
     
  2. DamarèRo

    DamarèRo Junior Expert

    Very true when u say DK stun again and again again like 2-3 stuns in a few secounds. No offens for anyone but DK rulles...my eng is not good enought to argument with you guys and..... hello to everyone this is my first comm :) i am from Romania, our dso forum will be close becose here are to many active ppl on this forum, hate you (joke) very nice community here, i always come and read whats new, guide etc. :D
     
  3. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Simple, Guardian's defenses need to scale according to the user's defenses.

    No, not really. They already have a form of damage mitigation in the PvP tree. All they would need to do is make a version that reflects on the character stats page.

    Given the changes to crafting, the timeline will be much shorter than that since people will simply buy new uniques and do some soul core crafting or use augment cores and glyphs as a stop gap. That is why the system needs to be changed at a more fundamental level.

    Did you read any of threads I referenced?
    Nope, you didn't read them, I'm sure.

    Let me summarize:
    You don't do a flat "nerf." For example, if you take away 50% of everyone's HP, the weaker characters get even weaker while the stronger ones are hurt, but still strong. Same with damage. If you take away 50% of 4k damage, it is going to make the weak weaker while a 30k damage player will still be very stong and able to kill people in a few hits.

    That is why I recommend that damage and HP are mitigated by a curve.
    The following was written for LVL 50, back when 6k damage was a high end build. The constant would change based on level and has the added benefit of balancing low level PvP and addressing the twinks that are still present at low levels.
    This "hurts" weaker players less. With my system, a SW's HP would be less severely "nerfed" than a DK's while a Mech with 37k damage would be more heavily impacted than a RA with 18k damage.
     
    Conqueror21 likes this.
  4. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    If i read those threads, your idea wont reduce the hp/dmg and other stuff aka nerf stuff?


    Yes, it will have to be different for every class but it is still called a nerf, and a huge one that will affect all the classes.Instead of doing that and having to come with some new algorithms, then force everyone to craft most of their items again why not simply boost some of the weakest classes ingame and dont change anything but that?

    In a word your suggestion is to nerf everyone until the strongest class gets on equal footing.The suggestions given by all those ppl on this forum (except u) are not ok because only warrior will be nerfed to some extent.So simply putting it, nerf everyone or dont nerf warrior.

    What about buffing the weakest classes to be competitive as ive stated earlier? Why isnt this a solution altough changing base hp, skill dmg, increasing gem or weapon enchantments is something that can be done within minutes while your suggestion will take a longer time and require a lot of changes to be made on both players part and game part?

    Your beloved warrior class wont have to suffer any nerf, nor any other classes like this, but the dmg that he will take will be greater and eventually the hp regenerations wont cope with that.You dont agree to this solution because buffing weak classes will also make it harder for u to kill them or ?


    For example if a mage has 80k hp nowadays with shield and 126% dmg with fireball, if he would get to have 150k hp or more and 350% dmg on fireball after a buff, will the rangers still be able to 1shot him? Will he be able to kill an endgame 1hand warrior ?Rangers will have to 2-3 shot him with shield and he "might" be able to kill the warrior assuming the fireballs will have a lower mana cost.

    Same for rangers..what if they get from 100k hp with shield now to 200k or 300k after buffing the class? They will have more room for errors when playing vs warriors with heal.Same with mages, same with dwarfs..the only difference is that mages also require some changes in the skill dmg /dmg area for the 1hand builds to be efficient.
     
  5. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    We both agree on this part.
    The ranking is a simple table sorted out by Honor points in descending order.
    The one who has more Honor Points is higher ranked than the other one who has less Honor Points.
    All Ranks (titles) require collection of certain amount of Honor Points (table) ... you have to collect enough Honor Points and you get the rank.
    True, skills have nothing to do with the ranks ... you can lose all the time and you can still get more points than the other players who are winning all the time. There are Grand Marshals who are dying in one shot by Legionnaires. Therefore ...
    Exactly ... Manchester United and Manchester High School are not playing in same league and are not having same opponents. But in Drakensang Online... everyone is playing in same league ... everyone can face same opponents from the league. There are different leagues only if you try to compare the results server vs server. In that case they are playing different leagues.
    Like I said earlier, there are Grand Marshals who are dying easy vs Legionnaires ... therefore labeling the Legionnaire "favored" makes sense. Imagine a situation where a Grand Master Flash is playing the arena all day long with his outdated level 40 gear ... and he has got that rank only because playing all the time. And then enters a PvE player who has spent 6 years farming PW all day long and has only played 10 PvP matches. PvE player kills the Grand Master ... 5 times in row. therefore the PvE player would be labeled "Favored" next time they cross swords again. This is an extreme situation unlikely to happen ... but it is a good example for explanation.
    Take me as example. I am playing the arena every day ONLY because of dailies. I am playing only duels and i am going there to lose ... because I don't like this broken PvP and 1v1 is the mode I don't even like. I have never though I would be playing 1v1. Believe it or not I am almost top 100 on Grimmag in duels XD ... by only playing dailies and relaxing in the dirt XD. But I am getting matches super fast ... and i am getting even level 50 legionnaire opponents. Of course they are too strong for me ... so I am losing (always 2-1) at the end :) They are righteously "Favored".
     
  6. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    The truth is, any balancing will be a combination of nerf/buff. But since the nerf is gradual and not flat, it functions to normalize the playing field. Yes, a DK with super high HP is going to get "nerfed" by 50%. If that was all that happened, he'd have reason to complain, but his biggest threats have had their damage "nerfed" too. Imagine a Ranger with 33k damage... his damage is going to be cut in half. Meanwhile, that glass cannon RA that had his damage nerfed by 50% might only have lost 20% of his HP while the DK in question may have lost 30% of his damage. Once some of these changes have been fixed, then the regen from Battle Frenzy in PvP could be adjusted fairly without leaving a 1H DK defenseless. This sort of balancing could be implemented similarly to how stuns have different durations in PvP and PvE. And while they are at it, they could tweak the damage of individual skills (up or down) to more finely tune the balance in PvP. The problem is, in the past, they've said that they can't do that, which is code for "it would take too much effort and we don't want to." There are plenty of options to balance PvP on a system wide scale, but the developers don't want to do the back end work to make it happen. Instead, they make the same mistakes, over, and over, and over by nerfing/buffing classes without considering the impact on PvE or PvP (depending on what they are working on at the moment.) It is complaints like the ones in this thread that ignore the consequences that fuel the changes that just leave the ones who exercise logic and reason scratching their heads and wondering how such garbage feedback makes it through, but quality feedback ends up filtered out.

    A system like this can do more good for balancing than any individual nerf/buff.
    Come back and argue math with me once you understand math.
    My "beloved warrior class." In the past, they have made multiple nerfs that made this class nearly unplayable (three come to mind), particularly in PvP, yet I kept on playing, because I love the melee style of fighting. It has only been since the release of LVL 55 and the sweeping changes that they made that the 1H DK became godlike, and I pointed that out back then. I predict a lot, an I'm right about a lot. Too bad that some people are just to blind to see the future.
     
  7. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Forum Master

    Hmm, hypothetically speaking, nowadays warriors can have up to 350-400k hp in full tank mode and with 3-4k dmg. Even if BP will nerf their hp by 50% a warrior in tank mode will have 150-200k hp in pvp after the huge nerf. On the other side, a mage with 15k dmg with 1hand will have his dmg reduced by 50% leaving him with not even 10k dmg.Do you think that at 10k dmg a mage will be able to kill a 150k hp warrior? They can barely do it now with 2hand and 35k dmg vs warriors with cube set.

    If they nerf the warriors hp most will play in tank mode, even at 75% hp nerf there will be warriors with around 100k hp.The hp regeneration will heal them for way less, and so will the supernatural regeneration skill.It will require another set of craftings, but the real problem is that not many will agree to this.

    I understand that those numbers that u gave were examples, and my math is not that great but what im trying to say is that if such a thing makes it ingame and hp/dmg and maybe armor will receive these type of nerfs, the DKs will flood this forum with complains.

    This solution to nerf everyone and force everyone re-craft again just because a class is too strong cannot be considered a solution imo.Some changes can be made without nerfing anyone nor forcing them to build new set of items and here is where buffing some skills for certain classes comes to my mind.Making 1hand weapons / shields more powerfull by making them increase the dmg of certain skills could be the best solution.No one uses or will use 1hand /shield to farm bosses but they will use them for pvp.

    Ill give u an example...what if the 1hand uniques gave +200% dmg on fireball and a lower mana cost? Might not be enough to kill a warrior but it will not mess with PvE either.It will not nerf anyone, will make SWs more competititve with 1hand and will not force anyone recraft again from almost 0.
     
  8. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Well new wisdom tree does not work in pvp so there cg all will have no regen, extra dmg etc it will be pure item based no bohemoth
    no faster attack speed
    No uber hp perk
     
  9. semen470

    semen470 Padavan

    great news ! im seriously happy about...ding dong
     
  10. This is kind of off-topic perhaps but since working on my ranger and working on pvp(for dailies purpose only), I have noticed many players around my level now, which is only 41(just turned) and so for the past previous say five levels I have noticed that many players have a POWERFUL punch, or for DK, alot of armor/health, and I am seeing their equipment at times which is mainly high lvl event items(Dragan, NewMoon, FullMoon). Howwww the heck are they getting such high lvl items at their lvl? Is this twinking? I mean it is really aggravating when one is trying to play the game 'fairly' and can't compete with this. How are these players not leveling up faster? Do they just sit and do pvp all day long and only farm events by being carried? ugh Venting over for now xD
     
  11. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Yup.

    There have been a number of ideas suggested from the community on this front, but very little action on the developer side other than doing away with XP blockers. Unfortunately, that does nothing to deal with the high number of twinks that already exist and continue to only gain XP from their PvP matches (very, very slowly).
     
    GoulishNightmares likes this.
  12. bruluci

    bruluci Forum-Apprentice

    208 is an insane change to everything....

    1st impression... Global NERFING. My DK on the test server is useless in Painful, can't tank - can't two-hand... dead
    I used to solo painful fairly easily.

    Wisdom is gone in PVP, so I guess only the Monster DK's that everyone is complaining about will be the only PVPable DK's left.

    Potions? a ton of new farming/crafting crap... Seems like you'll be FORCED to craft them since you'll need any/every help you can get to
    survive a painful level map.

    Adjustments on-the-fly costs gold in the wisdom tree, so it will be a costly trial and error period trying new things out.

    Group bonuses are a nice touch, but... the good ones seem to only trigger once a map and the constant ones are low reward.

    The point system is confusing - 41 wisdom translates to 138 points ??? not sure how that works, but points go quick.

    Over-all it seems that armor/resistance is about the same. But HP and Damage have been cut in half.

    Having 2 DK's in a pve group may go back to "not gonna happen"

    I know they are not done adjusting things... Rather... I HOPE THEY ARE NOT DONE ADJUSTING THINGS!!!!



    ADVICE: GET YOUR LVL6 GEAR NOW! or you won't get it it for a loooooong time.

    DK ADVICE: Find yourself a sheild with really high block rate %

    SW ADVICE: RUN!
     
  13. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Copper and Silver... and not a lot either. Selling one or two blue rings or amulets will give you more than enough to re-spec an entire character to start with, and at wisdom cap, it will only take ~3 gold.
    If both are tanks, you are right. If one is a tank and the other is a Support 2H DK, it is very viable.

    Yes, the monster balance, at least in solo, still needs work, but it is not the end of the world.

    Relax Henny Penny, The sky isn't really falling.
     
  14. dkarl

    dkarl Forum Connoisseur

    There's no doubt that you know a ton about this game, especially the math required to calculate the most efficient path to this result or that. But a very, very long time ago you lost touch with the struggles of the new and casual players, especially those with no viable guild. I started with a Ranger (on Tegan), got to the old PW (watery grave?), started to make minimal progress, and BP changed the PW dynamic. Couldn't survive Grimmag.

    Took a break. Came back with a fresh RA, picked up the new Full Moon equipment, started to make progress, struggling to get through the first 3 Qs and started the 4th, but BP ruined that Full Moon gear, and killed my chances at "running" PW in Painful mode.

    Took a break. Came back on Grimmag with a SM. Picked up 3 of 4 of the Blood Rune set, was trying to get my wisdom up near max so I could tackle PW painful, and BP ruined the main technique of the SM class, the Machine Gun turrets. Maybe I can get a bit better at placing them in a controlled environment, but on the fly in the middle of a battle? That's gonna be tough as heck to get right.

    I'd be willing to figure out how to make crit work on a SM. I'd be willing to grind massively on the new wisdom tree. But kill my main skill?

    BP appears to have done it again. I feel like this next break from the game will be permanent for me.
     
    bruluci likes this.
  15. bruluci

    bruluci Forum-Apprentice

    I hope so! (it took 5 years to get there)

    Burnt through gold very quickly trying to find a playable build. It's not much, but trying out the many new choices for the first time adds up.... Good idea to put a little aside for the change.

    don't see how this balances anything in pvp. It may... let's hope. It also may cripple the DK that's still coming up in the world and turn into Glasscannonville. Hard to say.

    A lot of DK's rely on the block-rate increase in wisdom to make a shield usable to run flags and survive a 1v1. Come to think of it... this may make the hammer a must have and the shield that goes with it might not be a bad idea. That's kinda ironically funny :p

    1st impressions are 1st impressions.
    The shock and awe of painful feeling like infernal3 on an already weakened character was discouraging.
    The complete removal of wisdom from pvp is... an interesting choice. Puts a lot of weight on gear over talent, but we'll see...
     
  16. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

     
    MikeyMetro and DocWhisky like this.
  17. DocWhisky

    DocWhisky Forum Connoisseur

    Said the man just before he got the rug pulled out from under him!!!

    You and I both know that if you expect the worst from BP/Devs.... you will NEVER be disappointed. And on the opposite side of the spectrum, if you expect the best from BP/Devs... you are rarely happy.

    This whole Build A New Game every 12 months crap is getting very old... This IS NOT a patch... its a total makeover ...AGAIN!! (R155/R185) Welcome to DSO 3.0

    And I agree with the post about so much more crap we have to farm and craft and you KNOW they will keep decreasing the drop rate.... just like they have the drop rate of Gold line craftables! (almost non existent now)

    While the "SKY MAY NOT BE FALLING!" Its definitely turned black, ugly and threatening!

    Now is not the time to RELAX... now is the time to voice your concerns... or is that not what this thread is about any more????

    Thanks, Doc.
     
    bruluci likes this.
  18. ImmortalDeath

    ImmortalDeath Junior Expert

    suggestion: we need skills for pets. and I mean not knowledge skills. but skills like the way group skills are acting on an area.
    also maybe even levels for pets. and maybe a separate campaign for them too. Not that shit little bonuses you get from collecting. The collection stuff is stupid.
     
  19. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    Now we have two current threads whining about nerfing DK's, when it more than obvious that the dev's are not focusing on fixing the pvp balance.
     
    bruluci likes this.
  20. Jhinstalock

    Jhinstalock Active Author

    It's 15 + 3 per level :)
     
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