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Dks and their woes in 2019 and a set that will fix it for them

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Phyrix, Sep 12, 2019.

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  1. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Well here it is the thing that Phyrix is fighting for.
    DKs need a boost in PVE and a big one at that.
    They say we should use armor break, but it does not give us cooldown
     
  2. Dwwarfkensang

    Dwwarfkensang Forum-Apprentice

    DKs do need a boost in pve and a big one but it would be better if they just made every class to have a role in the group.
    For example DKs are supposed to be the tank, the guy that doesnt die so everyone else can shoot the boss easier. But BP made the game so that you dont even need a tank, basicly cause of singularity.
    RAs description says they are not good against hordes but his got one of the best, if not the best, ability to kill hordes i dont think i have to say the name of the ability.
    SM dont know anything dont have a friend that plays him and i dont play him, all i know is that Q7+Q8 combo makes them to kill bosses faster than the other classes but i dont know how much faster.
    SW has lower dmg than SM but better aoe, but RA has even better aoe so the only thing SW does is singularity, which makes DK uselles.
    What i suggest is to give every class a role. DK the tanking role and a decent amount of dmg so he can solo, give SW the 2nd most aoe dmg and more summons to protect him and deal a bit of dmg ,without replacing DK. SM the most aoe dmg but he would have to play smarter than SW e.g. he throws something to taunt the enemies places a turret down and then starts killing and RA the dmg dealer but with little aoe dmg.
    Everyone should be able to solo till fatal but for infernal you should need a group and there should only be one infernal mode.
    Oh and about the title a set isnt the solution for anything. SETS SHOULD BUFF PLAYERS NOT FIXING WHAT PROBLEMS THEY HAVE, LIKE RA WITH Q7 SET.
     
    anderson92acs likes this.
  3. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Padavan

    The DK is called the "Tank" class but has only 30% more life than the other classes (20% Ranger).
    The other classes have 100% more dps than the War now.

    The solution is simple: reduce the dps difference to 30% (increasing damage percentages) or raise War life advantage to 100% (balanced with dps advantage of other classes).
    -> Problem solved.

    If other classes want to play a dps role :D, they should not have only 20-30% less life than DK. Especially if the other classes have a double dps.
     
    anderson92acs likes this.
  4. 9ndrei

    9ndrei Forum Pro

    .. and every other class if fine with that.. if they also receive a nerf in pvp and a big one.
     
  5. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Baron

    The DKs do not have only 20-30% more HP... they have incredible healing as well, by far beating everyone else in that aspect on bosses, and dwarf and mage on hordes. The lower skill damage output is compensated with higher skill healing.

    Now... the last time I checked, DK had enough damage, because it's on pair with the other classes in stats, while health is higher than other in stats. Mage has too low, but that's because of sets and other stuff...

    If you want to prove that classes are unbalanced (or balanced) - do a honest video with all the classes equipped equally, playing equally well, and preferably do such a comparison on every single PW to see the real differences. On top of that, there should be one test with sets (meta builds) and one without.
     
  6. gfffffgggggfff

    gfffffgggggfff Forum-Apprentice

    why are you the only one who is hating DK's?
    the fact we have the best healing capabilities
    is compensated by the fact that we have to take damage in order to output damage.
    DK is the only class that has to spend a lot more time then the other classes, dodging the enemy skills and positioning around the boss. this is also why we lose a lot of DPS.
    but in a sense you are a little bit right. why? this is because of dwarves. dwarves are the real problem, i am not saying their damage is the problem, but their cooldown reduction group effect is. this cooldown effect need to be changed or nerfed and when that has happened, the DK wil be even MUCH WORSE then they are now, and they wil need an even bigger damage increase then they already need, because let's face it. unless you have max crit, speed and cooldown runes as DK you are actually useless in a group if there is no dwarf present. what i suggest will not be a complete direct buff to all DK but of will be just increasing their damage potential. increase DK damage of some set bonus maybe q7 to 250% NERF q7 speed to maybe 25% after bigpoint has changed cooldown reduction group effect of dwarves this will be very justifiable and great for the game, because it will not only nerf the dwarfs class by a tiny bit, because good dwarves already permanently have all of their skills up dueto the turrets. it will soft nerf all the other classes as well. and make the game more interactive, much harder to play and fun, it wont be a spamm all your skills because we have a dwarf in group game anymore. PS this is just a suggestion, feel free to change my idea and experiment with this because after all i am only just a human being and can t make up all these changes by my own but together we can do this! thx for reading my bad english. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    anderson92acs likes this.
  7. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    DK's are definitely too weak in the solo pve game.

    My nearly comparable 2H SM (who has better damage/armor/crit but worse hp and resist than my 2H dk) can basically solo most of the inf 3/4 bosses without even bothering with buffs. My older DK is stuck at fatal/inf 1 in the solo game and is basically useless as a tank if i switch to tank gear because most comparable SW/SM can just solo.

    SM's, especially those with high steam, can often use their turrets not just offensively but also defensively as a destructible walls to block incoming missile/ranged attacks. SWs could do something similar with singularity and guardian.

    The result is better farming and faster progression over time for SMs and SWs, especially during those times when group play isn't feasible.

    (These comments don't apply to pvp, where dks can get crazy crit rate numbers due to the gwenfara shield, a piece of equipment that is basically almost pointless in pve. But i have stopped with pvp as it is boring)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  8. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Active Author

    Sorry for my bad English, honestly I don't really care about class quarrels, they are the worst that can exist in the forum!

    What I want to know is what the Dk-class BP wants to do? and if the result remains so?

    I think an urgent response from the house is more than a courtesy at the moment!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  9. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Padavan

    - Yes, only 30%. If DK has the same runes / gems and equip. Currently Guardian and in general range is better than healing against bosses. Life Potion with CD 1 helps.

    A detail that you tend to forget: DK must suffer damage to get anger, and it is the only truly melee class. DK is better against hordes, but is too slow to kill.

    - Have you seen the comparison video in Q2? If you know DK, Arachna gives you almost infinite rage, thanks to poison. Despite this DK kills Arachna in more than 2 minutes, the other classes 1. Only Mortis is ok, but SM kills even faster than DK.

    How to solve? 300% base damage on Smash and wild swing, instead of 200% (total Smash 360%, with talent). DK gets better damage. Similar to 214.

    The real problem? 220 does not work with DK. He works very well with Mago instead. Singularity freezes the boss and breaks armor at the same time, and also reduces your cds. Not bad, right?

    Anyway...

    It sounds like a joke, but it's the truth.
     
    anderson92acs likes this.
  10. gfffffgggggfff

    gfffffgggggfff Forum-Apprentice

    Better smash damage, i like this idea. But for that to be implemented DK would need a big nerf on pvp. how about reducing the healing from Dragon hide to only 20% and the healing from outburst to 5% (1% each second instead of the current 2%) 1h tank DK's don't really need the healing from outburst anyway since they have sufficient group skills to heal(bloody wild swing group effect) and should be more dependant on their equipment/group level to play anyway, shouldn't they?

    Now what i just suggested will not only nerf DK in pvp slightly (I think that's what everyone wants and why everyone is so afraid to buff the DK) , it will also make pvp a lot more fun to play for every class vs DK especially DK vs DK.
    One of the main reasons i hate playing pvp as DK is when i am vs other DK it really is not all that much about skill, just who can stun/run and heal better. And it is the entire opposite of fun. The better smash damage will give much better feeling to pvp for everyone! why? it will give the DK back the character it used to have. YOU DONT WANT TO GET CAUGHT BY HIM. if you get caught in close combat by the DK you are dead! this is how it is supposed to be, instead of getting caught by the DK several times and healing and running until he eventually chips you down swing by swing(this is how it is now). This will give the DK back the true feeling he used to have, not only in pve but also in pvp. ps i know that i am talking in circles but best with me please.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    anderson92acs and dzvery like this.
  11. Dwwarfkensang

    Dwwarfkensang Forum-Apprentice

    DKs are supposed to be a tank thats why they have lower dmg but now you dont even need a tank since you have mage, who can replace DK with singularity and deal more dmg, making DKs basicly uselles.
     
  12. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Well modifying the class will not bring us much comfort.
    It wont bring other classes much comfort either.
    First you have to realize that the nerfs we got was not intentional and you have to analyze where the problem is and why dks suffer now more than other classes.
    Okay lets see:
    First they increased the armor of mobs to 60% which means our crits became smaller.
    Now this is fine since well we got a damage increase of 30k plus.
    However then come r220 they increased the hp too.
    Now here is where it gets easier for other classes and inherently harder for dks.
    Our armor break is on a less used skill.
    Mecs have armor break with automated turrets.
    Mages have armor break with singularity
    Not only that but it gives them cooldown so its a skill they will naturally use
    Rangers use explosive arrow.
    So while mobs have more armor and more hp, dks is the only class that suffers severely because we do not inherintly use iron brow.
    The thing about iron brow is that it is a seperate armor break on its own while the other classes just kept using the skills they used to, we have to do that extra move to get more damage.
    This is the current problem with dks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    dzvery and gfffffgggggfff like this.
  13. gfffffgggggfff

    gfffffgggggfff Forum-Apprentice

    so then what is your suggestion to increasing the DK power phyrix? just a set new is cool and we really need more variety in the game but i dont see it as the solution for this problem.
     
  14. Hiro73

    Hiro73 Advanced

    Armor Break in Banner (CD 40 sec, not 60) and smash 400%.
     
  15. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Nope a set is not a solution, but it could be a temporary plaster.
    400% smash?
    Firstly, they will not allow for 400% smash and even if they did it would cost 40 rage.
    As for banner it is not much of an option because if its down to 40 seconds and did armor break we could use it every 10 seconds no worries.
    Now regarding the set, let me paste it here and ask @gbit for his expertise and maths to show us a form of a calculated dps if this set was real in DSO.
    Just think about this set for a moment, it basically does to all skills what q7 does to smash but only by 25%
    So in the case of smash it becomes a 15 frame skill
    Rage attack becomes a 9 frame skill
    [​IMG]
    And hammer ofc
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    gbit and DBS-Flamelurker like this.
  16. gfffffgggggfff

    gfffffgggggfff Forum-Apprentice

    rage increase, that is such an amazing idea. increase smash rage cost to 30, increase smash damage to 250% and with the 5 point skill 300%. reduce outburst healing to 5% over 5 seconds and dragon hide to 20% and there u got it. DK will be not as good in pvp as they are now, but this is what we want since the DK is definitely very OP in pvp and they will be buffed in pve and the healing problem that causes everyone to hate DK's in pvp will also be solved! 2 birds with one stone!!!!! thats how i like it
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  17. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Padavan

    For pvp just make Gwenfara's shield equal to the other impact shields.

    Result:
    - same overall damage.
    - less cd reduction.

    The main reasons:

    - weak armor break: on the map 20% to fail and vs bosses lose too much time to apply it.
    - possibility to slow down bosses with Singularity, ice (SM with turrets thanks to Q8) = more damage and better survival.

    Other classes get tools, DK nothing with 220.

    Why???
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  18. gfffffgggggfff

    gfffffgggggfff Forum-Apprentice

    dude, gwennfara shield is not the problem in pvp. even without that shield we can reach 80% cuz of cloacks. you see, in order to balance something the right way you have to look at ALL the aspect of the game. if smash damage gets increased, Dragon hide healing should become less. then we will get the same healing as before. i played a lot of LoL back in the day for like 3 years i followed all of their balance updates and came to understand something. You can't just change one thing and let the other stuff be, you have to take everything into account that the changes will affect, this is sadly something bigpoint(or the the devs) pretty much never do so the player base has to do it for them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  19. gbit

    gbit Forum Inhabitant

    Let me finish some calcs of mine (I'm interested in cloaks now) and I will surely prepare something for you...if is not asking too much, can you say me the other pieces of your ideal build (if I'm not wrong, you like to use belt of Zeal :) )?
     
  20. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Active Author

    If you want to balance the damage with the sets, it's very simple:

    1) Improve the body of q1 of the same value as the other classes.

    2) Increase the damage of set q8 equal to that of the dwarf and end of the story!
     

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