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Dks and their woes in 2019 and a set that will fix it for them

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Phyrix, Sep 12, 2019.

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  1. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    Which one, slowing bosses?
    As long as you actually CAN reach 3.637 solo which aint easy.
    Crafting 4x speed cloak aint easy, same goes for having 20% speed runes.
    4/4 karabossa is a meme - q1 torso is much better (4/4 locks you out of 6% 2h dmg and zeal which is superior).
    208%
    also, even with herald's cloak FB is just slightly better than sphere while combined with cloak and sphere is unbuffed.

    410% * 0,25 = 82%
    208% * 0,45 = 93,6%

    the difference is so minor it's almost laughable (4x 11,6 = 46,4% dps less)
     
  2. EmilyRose

    EmilyRose Junior Expert

    maybe his satisfaction to be a war able to kill a boss without to look at the other classes ;)
    don't forget the regeneration life of boss, show me a mage to do the same.
     
  3. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Firstly you dont need 20% speed runes, well you do but only if its a must
    But let me show you not even plat lines xD
    first up
    weapon, adornment, gloves, cloak,
    80 40 40 18
    2 witch seeker parts 11
    belt of zeal 10
    didnt even add jewel of rage but for the heck of it will leave it out
    pet 23%
    buff 24%
    total 274%
    0.83*1.25 = 1.0375
    1.0375+274% = 3.88025
    lets drop zeal buff too
    3.7765
    still well above the needed 3.63
    Well actually the change you got that gives skill cooldown and on itself too, technically speaking your singularity gives you everything and more
    Armor break
    Boss slow
    Cooldown of skills

    now imagine 240% smash :D <- our max damage skill
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  4. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    240% x 1,3 (from q7) = 312%

    312% x 0,3 = 93,6‬% aka 11,6% more than sphere on resistant boss or exactly the same as fireball on vulnerable boss.

    410% x 0,3 = 123% on neutral boss aka 29,4% more than smash.

    410% x 0,45 = 184,5% on vulnerable boss aka 90,9% more than smash (almost double the damage, hence why comparing SW on arachna to DK is completely unreasonable).

    But you use smash 6 times a second while sphere is 3.5.
    DK dps pattern is ground breaker, 18 smashes, 5 rage attacks during 5s.

    (100 + 90 + 18 x 312 + 500) / 5 = 1 261,2% dps (+/-, might be sligtly lower due to banner, dragon hide and iron brow - let's say 1160%)

    1160% x 0,3 = 348% dps (DK dps)

    3.5 x 82% = 287% dps (SW sphere on resistant)
    3.5 x 123% = 430,5% dps (SW sphere on neutral)
    3,5 x 184,5% = 645,75% dps (SW sphere on vulnerable)

    Now assuming that Q7 buff somehow goes through - smash damage is 90% of total rotation damage.
    Smash damage would be multiplied by x1,25 increasing 90% of damage by 25% of it.

    (18 x 312) x 1,25 = 7 020%
    (7020 + 500 + 100 + 90) / 5 = 1 542% dps (+/-, let's assume 1442%)

    1442% x 0,3 = 432,6%

    in comparison to SW's 287 / 430,5 / 645,75% - you dealing 2,1% more dps vs the same mitigation is enough (I'd even go as far and say borderline too much).
     
  5. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    17 smashes as confirmed by all dks on the forum
    oh and check my edited reply or wait let me paste it here.
    btw theres a mistake in your calculations
    you use 3.5 for the convenience of it and not 3.6 which will make a minute difference
    you said this right?
    however you forget the rule about increased damage %
    the higher the increase aka belt 47% torso 47% belt of zeal 20% and the dilution from essences makes the % increase ratio less than 1.3 it is also for this reason that q4 does bigger smashes than q7 from pinks upwards to reds < would have to check again but possibly might be on blues even thanks to certain elements
    meanwhile mages rely on the high % base of 410%
    youre talking to a q4 wielding dk here
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  6. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    As SW you cant use zeal, q7 and 2/4 karabossa.
    Zeal is 1/4
    Q1 torso is 1/4
    Dragan helmet is 1/4
    so 11% less

    now on top of that you cant use both speed pet and speed physic if you dont have 3x4x plat crit dmg (since you'll be missing at least 50% - with karabossa cloak - or 60% without it)

    in total 80+40+40+18+10+24 (assuming you have 3x gold cloak or just 4x speed but not golds) = 212
    212 x 1.0375 = 2,1995
    2,1995 + 1,0375 = 3,237

    Jewels of Rage werent available since very long time ago. Assuming you have one (blue) you still need 40% crit dmg (physic / pet) and almost 25% (24,44%) attack speed.

    You need:
    - Zeal (last time seen a year ago)
    - Jewel of Rage (last time seen few years ago)
    - 10x t3 attack speed rune (120%)
    - 40% gloves
    - at least 3x gold speed cloak or 4x non gold (and both are very hard to get)
    - speed physic (increasing pot amount you use)

    and you're still not 3,637

    No there isnt one. Attack speed doesnt automatically indicate how many times per second you can use a skill.
    I already explained that to you (you were saying 2,3 speed = 2,3 rageful swings while in reality its 3).

    For example 3,334 for magic missile is 5 magic missiles per second.
    For frozen sphere is's 3.5 spheres per second.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  7. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    go a few pages back, my crit dmage is 383% aka 4.83
    I dont even have plat lines and am already only 17% short I craft 1 ring 77 and another 80% and I will have 400%
    so as for kara cloak not needed.
    lemme show you
    will take moderate plat lines
    20x2 40 <- 2/2 adornment
    80x3 240
    24% wisdom
    404% 4% overflow no kara cloak or even cube set bonus just plain moderately good plat lines with a crit cloak
    now if even a noob like me can get there effortlessly...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  8. anderson92acs

    anderson92acs Forum-Greenhorn

    Runes and attributes such as damage, armor, stamina, and health should be different for each class. A wizard cannot use shields or armor runes of the same value as a warrior. Just as a warrior doesn't deal the same amount of damage.
    a major update should be made. or redo from scratch. Before creating any content that will make the player dissatisfied, use our opinion for which item would look best, which pet, do not create useless disguises to deflect the big problem that is the balance of the game.

    -----MERGED-----

    you're wrong. dks stopped being a strong character in both pvpe and pvp on this R220. In pvp the biggest problem is long-range attack class use shield, why? if dks causes 1 hit. Block block. soon if sw or other class attacks it deals duration damage, fire, ice, lightning and armor break. unbalance

    -----MERGED-----

    Wizard uses ice sphere and guardian to attract and regain life. Ranger uses forest spirit to attract and regain life. The warrior uses his ability to look away from the boss and protect himself while hitting the boss without worrying about spinning every 5 seconds to regain life. And if you spin, how much furious is left to use crush ability?
     
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 19, 2019
  9. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    You're assuming people can afford using 2/2 deco which is equal to using crit dmg pet.
    Also you're assuming somebody will be bothering to craft 4x mediocre plat.

    4x gold is 73%.
    3x4x gold is 220%, deco with crit cause if you dont have crit cloak you need crit from deco so -40% as well.
    That's 60% which is why I said with jewel you need just pet or physic otherwise even with pet you're x4.9 anyway.

    Also, idk how did you got 274% from
    since
    weapon + deco + gloves + buff + pet + cloak + karabossa + zeal
    80+40+40+24+23+18+11+10 = 246% not 274% ........
    on top of that, you cant use karra 2/4 on SW with zeal since you need q1 torso for mana so not only 246% instead of 274 but 11% less so 235% instead of 274%

    235% x 1,0375 = 243,8125
    2,438125 + 1,0375 = 3,475625

    Please I beg you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  10. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Padavan

    No. Better read an opinion of a SW:

    ...............................>

    [​IMG]
     
  11. anderson92acs

    anderson92acs Forum-Greenhorn

    [incorrect quoting in other language than English removed]


    My first character is my current DK since 2012. I played and tested the other classes, and DK has always been overlooked with every update. which made me stop playing in 2014 and return in late 2017, I'm thinking of quitting again after the 220 update.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 19, 2019
  12. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    First of all not only it was a bug (singu NOT reducing singu) but before that MC got gutted without a valid reason and as ΣMiwel pointed out SWs need either MC or properly working singu to deal average DPS.

    Secondly, SW doesn't even profit from this on PvE that much. You can get the entirety of phase 2 on 1 singu, maybe 2 otherwise it was used like that even before this fix. It was MC+Singu and you had it permanently up anyway.

    This changed almost nothing besides dumbing down SW class which reasonable people booed, including me.
    Take it away but give us our MC back, I'd be happier than ever.

    Also, this opinion is no longer valid since MC revert was reverted and it no longer works as it used to for 6 years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    EmilyRose likes this.
  13. Shine2

    Shine2 S-Moderator Team Drakensang Online

    Hello anderson92acs ; I have merged your posts. Please avoid writing consecutive posts; instead, please add content to your already existing post if it hasn't been followed by a new post from another Member. Thank you.
     
  14. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    1000 base damage (nice round number)

    For 0 % increased damage:
    1000 + 1000 x 1,5 = 2500
    2500 / 1000 = 2.5

    For 150% increased damage:
    1000 x 2,5 + 1000 x 1,5 = 2500 + 1500 = 4000
    4000 / 2500 = 1.6

    For 300% increased damage:
    1000 x 4 + 1000 x 1,5 = 4000 + 1500 = 5500
    5500 / 4000 = 1,375

    So, do you have 300% increased damage on your character without Q7?
    I bet you're hovering near to 275% making this about 1.4 not even 1.3.
     
  15. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Padavan

    And now, compared to before, you're also getting broken armor and slowing down against bosses. Also add cd reduction and get an OP skill, right? You can still use MC, against monsters summoned by the boss.
    It changes only in pvp, but in pvp SW is very strong now.

    You can ask for the return of old MC (and restore "bug" on Singo), you will have my support.
    The problem is not when only one class is better, but when only one class is weak.
    SM is very strong in pve with Q7 + Q8, it's not a problem for me. But DK's class feels too weak after 220. It must dodge a lot and inflict low damage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  16. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    We already did, singu "fix" is what we got instead.

    We dealt with this and so should you.
     
  17. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Padavan

    @Phyrix : I suggest changing the title to: "Dks and their woes in 2019 and ... GOOD LUCK" :D
     
  18. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    Now exactly what would you gain without a crit cloak?
    Why even mention that?
    I showed how to get to 400% cd
    you showed how you cannot get to 400% cd
    seems the 2x mortis rings and 2x 20% runes was still in the calculator when I pressed =
    so theres how
    I was accounting for mages mostly not needing the dragan ring <- or any hp on a ring for that matter and they are still fine and hunky dorey
    Having excuses for being OP does not mean you get to dictate if a class needs a buff or not...
    Or what the buff should be for that matter
    Maybe stick to math because thats all you can do it seems, as for logic reasoning thats a totally different matter
    Because you know
    a spellweaver is going to do inf4 on whites since it is all he needs
    so anyways its not 1.3 on 575% increased damage <- relative modifier and reds
    anyways q1 torso is just a meme you have xmas stars and potion spam
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  19. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    Why would you want x5 without maxed crit?
    How do you want to have 29k crit without 4x crit deco??? 2 crit bonuses in deco are worth about 6000 crit. Do you have 35k crit? I don't and I have tier 8 magma and 4 blue royals & blue jewel of rage.

    Also, good for you that you showed "how to get it" but besides theorycrafting this nobody will ever craft that and use that since using "low plats" is a complete waste of gold.

    On top of that even with your "how to get 400% cd" you still are 15,56% attack speed short, even with 3x speed cloak, attack speed pet and attack speed physic - that's how "easy" it is to reach 3.637 on q7
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  20. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Duke

    let me show you something instead <- maybe you didnt do this math
    [​IMG]
    =
    [​IMG]
    thats with only 2x xmas runes
    assuming youre end game
    I can assume you have more than 8% crit from xmas runes?
    heck that even excludes the q4 weapon
    So in short 400% cd easily achievable and yes even with mediocre lines <- regarding that max lines might only be needed if you craft a ring 3/1
    4x 20% runes should be within reach after this event and anniversary and a few clovers
    no offence but you seem quite negative about what can be attained in dso
    yet you are one whom claims to know what the game needs
     

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