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Bug Fix the Ice Missile bug

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by .RakshaRanja., Mar 9, 2019.

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  1. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced



    Detailed description of talent, set bonus and item bonus, video examples and comparisons included.

    Please watch till the end.
     
    ΣMiwel and _G_R_A_M_P_S_ like this.
  2. _G_R_A_M_P_S_

    _G_R_A_M_P_S_ Exceptional Talent

    that is just like the wisdom talent where you get cooldown reduction for killing blows. But it appears to only take one killing blow/second. If you make 3 killing blows in 1 second it still only counts 1. If you kill multiple foes with 1 blow, it only counts 1.
     
    heror likes this.
  3. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    Ignoring the fact these talents shouldnt exist (due to being completely balance breaking but who gives a damn about pve balance ...) it's most likely the case.

    Same goes for wisdom 300 points mage-exclusive talent "each time you get hit if you are below 33% hp you get 15 mana" meanwhile you get mana only once per second even if you are hit 10 times in that period.

    All of these should be addressed preferably together since this looks like a broken mechanic (or maybe programmed with particular scenarios in mind like low attack speed, no A8 set, damage dealt to your character once per second), also A8 set is already considered crap and that could help it at least a little (not like cc is valuable when everything dies when you LOOK at it ...) and helps realizing A8 set fantasy - being a "lord of ice" (specializing in frozen sphere, ice missile, frost nova, frost wind, ...).

    Also, taking into consideration that Gwenfara's Almanach works properly all of these should be fixed asap.

    This is the longest issue with DSO as a game - lack of consitency in both wording and how mechanics work / are perceived by devs.
     
    Jhinstalock and ΣMiwel like this.
  4. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    Have you even watched the video or you came in here just to show your A8 ignorance again?
    Obviously 3pts. upgrade is working but it doesnt work like it should be - it's both talent issue AND A8 issue.

    3pts. upgrade alone isn't working fine since:
    - at hight speeds (and by high I mean 2.0+) cdr isn't matching the amount of crits.
    - 5pts. talent (piercing) isnt effectively doubling the cdr you get from crits.
    - doesnt take into consideration additional ice missiles from A8 set.

    How is wording ok if sigris set says:

    "Each missile (...) can trigger effects." when clearly it isnt the case. Not even first missile of each cast is.
    This is exactly the same issue Gwenfara's items had before they were hotfixed.
    Nope.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Also, singularity talent is worded so awfully you could even interpret it as:

    "Your cooldown is reduced only if your skills are active AND while you are in the Singularity" which clearly isnt the case.
    How meteor can be active? When it falls down? That's one example of awful wording.

    This is why I was saying DSO lacks integrity and wording issues are very common - "while active", "for each", "after" can have different meaning for two sets with the same keywords.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  5. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Commissioner

    Your post is simply antilogical.
    You don't know yourself how things work and you don't know how they should work.

    Bugs, bugs, bugs everywhere. All kinds of bugs. CPU eating, crashes, skills and talents not working according to the description, wrong descriptions, exploits, graphical glitches.
    It's high time they were fixed.
     
    .RakshaRanja. likes this.
  6. heror

    heror Forum Duke

    U just proved my point...... If u dont know the difference between TOTAL cooldown and active cooldown that its not my mistake.

    Also there is a diffrence between active skill cooldown aka the cooldown remaining on the skill
    and reduce the cooldown of all active skill aka total cooldown of all skills that u normally use.
    If i didnt know what i was talking i would have guessed wrong about how they work but i wasnt ,so i guess u need to go play LOL or other bigger games and learn the difference between the two

    Also on the q8 bug its not working like that unnntended. The made so that the first hits activatesz the upgrade which is still activating the effect but in the set is not said " multiple times " its not that its bugged is just that they didnt write a few more words to state it clearly
     
  7. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    I know the difference. You seem to not understand there is no difference between Singularity talent and wisdom talent. Both reduce % of TOTAL cooldown but both descriptions are awfully worded.

    For:
    - 0% cdr from runes
    - meteor with 60s cooldown
    - 3,25% cdr per each final blow

    No matter if "active cooldown" of meteor is 10s or 60s it reduces 2s every time (but it's not per EACH final blow like description states).
    Test it ingame, edit your post and apologise.

    I'll be posting video proving you're wrong later today or tomorrow depending on my time schedule.

    This is almost unreadable but I'll try anyway.

    First of all

    This is completely not true. They did. 2/2 set bonus clearly states that:

    "Ice missile fires 3 missiles each time you cast it. Each bullet deals 30% of your base damage as ice damage and can trigger effects."

    Each bullet (...) can trigger effects. And it does. Each missile is triggering frost debuff. Each missile that hits enemy covered in frost is adding another stack to cost reduction from torso. Each missile is piercing through target YET not every missile triggers cdr from 3pts talent.

    Secondly

    "The made so that the first hits activatesz the upgrade which is still activating the effect but in the set is not said 'multiple times' "

    The thing is you neither watched my video nor read what I wrote. Not even first of three missiles is properly reducing cooldown.

    Let's assume only first missile (which is stupid cause A8 set mede to synergize [oh they irony] with this kind of effects perfectly) should reduce the cooldown time.

    Code:
    In my video (which you should watch) I did cast Ice missile 34 times using one dummy.
    I had 80% crit chance when I was recording this video.
    
    34 * 0,8 = 27 (13,5s)
    So my Frost Wind cooldown should be reduced by 13,5s.

    The thing is - it wasn't. It was reduced by 9s (x18 procs).
    Let's get deeper then.

    Code:
    I tested it on 2 dummies too so the cdr from Ice Missile should be doubled due to 5pts talent (piercing).
    
    First dummy was hit with 34 main Ice missiles.
    Second dummy was hit with 31 main Ice missiles.
    
    (34 + 31) * 0,8 = 52 (26s)
    So my Frost Wind cooldown should be much (twice) shorter than before (using one dummy), right?
    No, it wasn't. It was reduced by the same amount of procs (x18) making effective cooldown the same as for one dummy.

    So, explain to me (since Im not playin enough games to understand what is happening) why is that happening?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  8. heror

    heror Forum Duke

    As i said:
    1) they didnt do they job till end
    2) the word is " can" not will atleast this is how i viewed it
    Because u will pretty much have perma wind and ice nova idk maybe this way they think they balanced it i dont know
    And i told u the only the first missile procs it thats why u got only 9 secs of . Actually its not the first if it was the first only then the first hit of 30 missiles would be 10 first hits aka 10 x 0.5 would mean u should get only 5 sec return but u got 9 , so maybe 2/3 hits trigger it or idk, so this is why ill say the word is "can" not wont so maybe rng is involved in this, anywas there is a reason i ditched this set, i makes the player specifically lazy , atleast thats why got me
     
  9. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced



    Yeah, right :D
    This quote summs it up very well:
    For the second part of your post:
    I said I did CAST 34 Ice missiles which translates to:

    - 34 of Ice missiles were "main" ice missiles
    - Additional 68 ice missiles were from sigris set.

    Each time you CAST ice missile with A8 set you CREATE 3 of them (with later 2 being slightly delayed).

    Watch. The. Video.

    Items with chance for proc exist - look up Twin Queens set.
    It works as intended since set bonus says you have a chance to get a stack.
    Gwenfara's items were meant to give stacks for EACH crit and they were hotfixed for a reason. A8 set is the exact copy of the Gwenfara's item situation.

    This "can" means as "is able to". This is not a "can" as "can but may not". Numbers from my video say it all.

    Also I clearly said that:

    "Each bullet (...) can trigger effects. And it does. Each missile is triggering frost debuff. Each missile that hits enemy covered in frost is adding another stack to cost reduction from torso. Each missile is piercing through target YET not every missile triggers cdr from 3pts talent."

    Which is (if you are right) another instance of inconsistency and terrible execution of wording.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  10. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Commissioner

    Period. If @heror doesn't understand the meaning of the english modal verbs, he should withdraw from the discussion.
    "can" is the most appropriate choice in this situation. Not getting into the details, it's in part referring to the fact that some enemies (eg. bosses) can be immune and the frost effect isn't applied, and then without the 3p. talent no effects are applied.

    And, yet again - if that case was fixed and this case is similar, I see no reason to keep it not fixed.
    I admit I have never tested how this talent exactly works, I saw that there is some reduction coming and felt no urge for testing.
     
    .RakshaRanja. likes this.
  11. heror

    heror Forum Duke

    For the wisdom upgrade i just noticed that it has somekind of cooldown. Because from your video it reduced the cooldown per enemy but if you kill all of them really fast it doesnt return that much cooldown. Just tried it and if they are 3 mobs and i 1shot them with MS the first gives return, second didnt and third did. But im playing only with 4% not maxed. But maybe it has some kind of minimal cooldown which led me to think that it did work like i tought


    On q8:
    But i still think the word "can" is not the best words to use here since IT does work on bosses. So " will "is better - for the 5 pts tallent Because it works on bosses since @ΣMiwel said they are immune , in fact they are not , only from the frost/ freezy effect which doesnt affect the 5 pts tallent
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  12. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    Now you're straight up trying to dodge the bullet you shot yourself AT yourself.

    You clearly said that:

    "The upgrade in wisdom clearly states ACTIVE cooldonw meaning you wont get % of total cooldown.
    If your skill has total of 30 sec cd like guardian but at the moment u have 10% left before its up after killing a mob u return 7% of 10seconds and not 30 sec....

    U just proved my point...... If u dont know the difference between TOTAL cooldown and active cooldown that its not my mistake."

    % value or hidden proc cooldown has NOTHING to do with your false interpretation how reduction itself is working.
    You confirmed it when you denied that singularity 5pts. talent is working the same as wisdom talent.

    In civil discussion, while being proved wrong, you should admit you were wrong and apologise, especially for your argumentum ad personam directed at both me and ΣMiwel.

    Dodging the topic wont do any good - apologise and move on.

    This isnt the issue with wording only.
    You can clearly see now that there is some wierd invisible cooldown on both 2h wisdom talent, 3pts ice missile talent, 300 points wisdom mage exclusive mana talent - this needs fixing ASAP. Wording is less of an issue when things work as they should.

    Also wording issues aren't exclusive for these items/talents which is why i think they should unify the KEYWORDS and MECHANICS across all sort of sets - with one patch being dedicated in doing so (can and should be different than the one fixing the issues with these talets or items, these should get hotfixed ASAP!).

    3 months and 10 days passed since I reported that bug.

    FIX THIS ALREADY.
     
  13. heror

    heror Forum Duke

    First.... its been 3 months dont quote me again on dead threads for me.
    Second the game has problems fndamentally. Things work the way they shouldnt/ the way they dont work in any other game.
     
  14. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    I bumped the thread.
    Also, thread is not dead according to mods (since I couldnt bump it the normal way).

    This reply was here for 3 months.
    Great argument. "Things are broken but things are broken in other games so it's fine."
     
  15. heror

    heror Forum Duke

    You got it wrong i said that things are bugged or work the way they DONT in any other game.
     
  16. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    Well, then these should be fixed, right?
    So why is it taking devs 3,5 months to fix a simple thing? This just a matter of tweaking few variables in code.

    Im almost 100% sure they arent even aware of this.
     
    ΣMiwel and heror like this.
  17. Jhinstalock

    Jhinstalock Active Author

    It will be an OP talent if it's fixed, but at least it gives all classes a way to have their skills on infinite uptime :)
     
  18. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    There are plenty ways to address this.

    Yet, I dont really think that having super short cooldown on cc on PvE matters that much (since you can currently sneeze at inf4 mobs and these will die).

    First, this needs to be fixed and then we can see if 0,5s per crit is that bonkers - if it is nobody should hesitate to nerf it (for example to 0.25s per crit).
     
  19. Jhinstalock

    Jhinstalock Active Author

    It's foolish to assume everyone is strong. It's only a small %
     
  20. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Advanced

    Yet I think the "strength" in DSO is more DPS-based rather than CC-based. I mean SMs with literally single CC ability (rocket) are dominating atm.

    Obviously CC has its uses and pros yet I really dont think that fixing this talent should be based on "will it be broken after fixing?".

    Fix it, apply patch, check if too good:

    1a) If no, leave it as it is
    1b) If yes, nerf
    2b) Check if too good
    3b) Check step 1a) again​
     
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