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Suggestion General revamp, economy changes

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by ΣMiwel, Sep 7, 2019.

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Do you want the proposed changes to be implemented?

  1. Yes!

    64.0%
  2. No!

    36.0%
  1. Reikanin

    Reikanin Forum-Apprentice

    Thank you, You just wrote what I wanted to say.
    These images proof nothing, because we don't know what gems they have, if their gems are refined (blue version) how many Yellow enchantments they have in uniques and how many orange/platinum crafted enchantments they have. And in the first picture I see buff icons :)
    Second point, if you still don't know, in the first picture (I say again there are buffs and we don't know what it is), the mage is using the bloodrune staff. Bloodrune has a base damage higher than any other weapon of around 5k, because of its unique feature, but this doesn't mean that is the strongest of the game. Ex. a mage with bloodrune has 50k and a warrior with q7 set has 45k. While the mage has no other opportunities to rise its damage, you can with 150% more weapon damage and this means you will have much much more damage than the mage at the end.
    Third point: As a concerne q7 set, mage has the worst because fireball is useless even with the new cloak and metheor is really boring to use it as Heror said up. So I don't get why you are asking for a nerf.
    Fourth point: If mages use q7 set for the buff and then swap, it's because our q7 set is just terrible and we swap to another better weapon, but of course the 150% weapon damage is the sickest bonus of the game and it's a pity don't get it. If we have another usefull bonus in the q7 set, be sure noone will swap it also because it's really boring.
    Fifth point: Shining amethist for a mage= 117 life points; Shining amethist for a warrior= 117 life points. Not mention for the values of the items.
    Finally I don't understand why you are asking for the FS nerf if mages is not top dps class. Ask for a buff of your warrior!


    --- MERGED ---


    Sorry shining amethist for mage is 90 life points :)
     
    Last edited by moderator: Sep 10, 2019
  2. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    These are the defensive stats of every other maxed char.
    The difference is HP - also using karabossa and hp tonic instead of Dragan and block tonic is borderline trolling on DK.
    Mitigation and damage from Dragan set is multitudes better than what karabossa will ever offer - ESPECIALLY for DK.
    Well I don't die to 1 hit from inf4 mobs, maybe you should tune your base mitigation :D
    Do you even read how ... backward this sounds?
    >Let's nerf mages cause pots are overtuned
    Logic like this is why people like you are ridiculed and even if you have a point it's overshadowed by all ... that kind of stuff said.
    SW - 60s base cd meteor which can be reduced to about 12s IF you stand in your singu for the entirety of its duration.
    SM - 25s base cd rocket which is most of the time instantly reset by mechanical turrets.
    DK - 10s base cd ground breaker which is reduced by 1s every crit (flat cdr is much better than % cdr on short cooldown abilities).
    RA - 10s base cd net which has a 40% chance to reset on each use.

    With 20% cdr runes you have:
    SW - 48s (8s in singu)
    SM - 20s (1s with turrets in place)
    DK - 8s (about 2-3s downtime between uses)
    RA - 8s (or just reset)

    + http://www.bigpoint.com/drasaonline...rune-slot-on-certain-items.77459/#post-703503

    The 2nd part of RA Q7 is actually responsible for almost 3 times as much damage in comparison to 150% damage.
    For SMs it's even more since HS is not only free but fast.

    In other words, 3s of other classes buff is worth as much DPS wise as 9s of SW buff.
    Current fireball dps is
    4 x (120 x 1.15) = 4 x 138 = 552%
    552% x 1.25 = 690% dps for 9s

    on herald's cloak DPS is
    4 x 2 x (120 x (0.75 + 0.15)) = 4 x 2 x (120 x 0.9) = 4 x 2 x 108 = 8 x 108 = 864% dps
    864% x 1.25 = 1080% dps for 9s

    if you reduce frames of fireball this skill will be dealing 50% more DPS
    552% x 1.5 x 1.25 = 1035% dps for 3s
    864% x 1.5 x 1.25 = 1620% dps for 3s

    and then for next 6s you have 552% or 864% DPS

    (3 x 1035 + 6 x 552) / 9 = 713% avg dps in 9s
    (3 x 1620 + 6 x 864) / 9 = 1116% svg dps in 9s

    This might look ok and all but ... that's true DPS.
    Ranger's true DPS is about 2500-3000% in comparison to SW's 1116% with 3 herald items (and only 2 in RA case) this is ... well good for you.

    Mitigated 1116% on:
    Vulnerable bosses is 1116% x 0.57 = 636% mitigated dps
    Neutral bosses is 1116% x 0.4 = 446% mitigated dps
    Resistant bosses is 1116% x 0.25 = 279% mitigated dps

    According to your "rangers 1500%++ per second" it's 1500%++ to 446% (since armor is like neutral for SW)
    Basically, 1/3 of RA DPS and you call 3 seconds fair :D:D:D
    And that's while actually buffing herald's set (since your change would actually buff it rather than nerf it cause avg DPS is higher).

    Consider listening to your own advice:
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  3. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Commissioner

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If you have 3 seconds of fireball costless you will still have your full mana pool of frozen sphere, or lightning strike.
    But nah its better then to keep your q7 BUG
     
  4. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Duke

    The example change of that set that I posted in the spoiler in the OP would fix that problem though... you're just not willing to listen.
     
  5. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    Yeah, and where did I say that?

    I compared dps output of fireball to EA.
    If you want to make q7 firebal unique then make it at least rival with other options.

    Q7 buff should be removed when at least 1 part of the set is unequipped - exactly like SW Q8.
     
  6. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Commissioner

    As long as youre willing to sacrifice another option in its stead...
    Anyways, youre not a mod here, no one including yourself is going to clean up your little messes here for you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  7. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Padavan

    I guess the paper dps class with no self mitigation or absolutely unusable self healing has to sacrifice something to properly dps:D:D:D
     
  8. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Commissioner

    Ah so then you admit that spellweavers is the class with the most offensive skills :D
    And for this you want more offense?
    Thanks to the herald cloak you already have 3 skills above 200% base
    Anyways who needs damage mitigation when you have slow?
    Who needs damage mitigation or heal when enemies and bosses can never reach you?
    What is a mage doing right next to a dk in front dealing damage not needing to worry about defence?
    This means that mages can travel a whole map tanking everything.
    That is not the order of things, mages want more damage and complain about being glass cannons which they are not.
     
  9. Reikanin

    Reikanin Forum-Apprentice

    You are the only one that thinks that mage is the best damage class :)
    Make a group with 5 mages and then with 5 dwarves and let's see the differences :)
    The difference between you and us is that you just talk about nerf having a bad knowledge of the game.
    You have 40k and you cry because you can't do content on solo? I had 40k when inf3 was the cap and the game was easier; now is harder and even people with 70k do solo leaderboards in fatal because bosses have too much life now.
     
  10. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Commissioner

    Oh is that so?
    Funny thing though I said it is 60k dmg dks that complain and not me
    aaand theres the proof.
    I dont complain about running inf1 just fine.
    As for your whole mecs vs mages
    Firstly its always mages complaining, about dks regen, about rangers EA, about mecs base per second, and funny thing is its the only class complaining about all 3 other classes...


    Kind of ironic how there is pointed to how the ranger is fastest but I did look
    Both the mec and the mage killed more mobs
    Also the mage encountered mobs on the way to the mini boss which the ranger did not
    Bearing these things in mind, mages are OP
    DSO is about how fast you can farm, and it is how fast you can farm that matters because it = faster building
    In this video the DK is slooow super slow
    Not because of this or that but because of how the game has been adjusted alone.
    now 90 seconds slower than any other class per run does not sound like a lot right?
    Heres the catch though, 90 seconds per run 1000 runs = 16 hours slower farming.
    Now annually 10 000 runs is not even a lot its virtually nothing which = 160 hours slower farming now, lets get realistic
    Leaderboard alone is how many runs?, full moon, new moon big events... all this = not worth it.
    Not worth it for dks atleast
     
  11. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    kind of funny that u post this video over and over again considering sw deals more dmg on arachna and uses q7 swap for a total of 40% FASTER time then regular. Now if they do it on q3, q4 without q7 swap it will be funny to see sw coming to dk s level but i guess sw is jus so broken that dealing dk s dmg while not being able to self heal is broken man (obvious sarcarsm) + your examples of endgame dks is literary a joke , running full offense set, and having overcapped crit instead taking it as a +
     
  12. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Commissioner

    Okay...
    Which dk has a crit overcap? what are you talking about?
    And why do you even pic maps?
    at all bosses dk will come out the slowest by faaar.
     
  13. Dwwarfkensang

    Dwwarfkensang Forum-Apprentice


    DK did have the slowest time on boss by far, but i saw him multiple times trying to kill an enemy and living him half life
     
  14. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Duke

    If it wasn't you wouldn't have the problem... right?
    You see, that's what the OP was about. About removing the "fast farm".

    Nope.

    Regarding that video:
    1. We don't know the stats of those characters. We have to rely on author's claim in that matter.
    2. We don't know whether he removed some items/deliberately changed some skills to go slower on Dwarf/Knight.
    3. The boss is arachna. This should be made on an element-neutral boss, eg. Khalys. This is the reason why the mage is faster.
    4. Ranger is, as you've noticed, passing by mobs. This is the reason why he is faster.
    5. Dwarf is clearing too many mobs. That's a reason why he is slower.
    6. Knight is using skills wrong, not using some at all. That's a reason why he is slower.
    Make such a test (fairly item- and skillwise) at Sigrismarr... you will see how "slowest" your little DK will be.
    It would be Dwarf >> Knight >= Ranger (with good luck with net refresh it's equal) >> Mage.


    If you agree fully with heror, and heror agreed fully with me, why do you downvote?
     
    .RakshaRanja. likes this.
  15. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Commissioner

    It would be >>> mage because of either mana at khalys or lightning and ice resist on sigris lol
    Thats your choice of a neutral boss?
    more fair video would be all bosses and the kill times
    Secondly the most neutral boss would be mortis <- no other boss
     
  16. elitecrew1031

    elitecrew1031 Junior Expert

    -20 seconds for the mage because he only took the shrooms he don't need. Who is the fastest class for farm ? Dwarf q8 +q7 op ?
    Anyway, every mage in this forum is delusional and refuse to understand the power of their class .
     
  17. mariusmgm

    mariusmgm Someday Author

    i read the whole thing here,you can get your char to a very big dmg stats,with like 10 h daily if you dont have a life,but that this it,dev team dont care about your opinion,they will do the way they think,trust me,im old in the game
     
  18. Reikanin

    Reikanin Forum-Apprentice

    I agreed the things he said about mage and why we think mage is not the best class.
    In your post I don't agree the crafting removal or make it easier, because that would have been done long time ago and not now that we had a new release on platinumenchantments and another release on cloak crafting where you have to say goodbye to a lot of gems. If game is going more and more on this direction, it sounds really strange that tomorrow they remove all of this, especially after tons of andermants wasted to create cloaks (some days ago I bought 100k onix gems just for cloak on workbench).
    All infernal removed sounds such a waste for all the core spend
    Gems now are much easier to make. In event they give you tons of big gems. Even if you don't shop, you get 15 days free deluxe and you can do many gems thanks to that. 6 years ago I had nothing of this, nor in events neither premium and moreover gems had an andermant cost 100% higher than now and moreover I had to buy sapphires too. I'm not going to say that now you can do 1 royal gem in 1 day and it is easy, but is much more easy now than before
     
  19. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    If u arent using q4 exclusively ls lacks vs fs so in reality q1 4 5 6 are neutral, q2 q9 are weak and q8 q3 is a nightmare.
    and q4 is a neiche set, and bm uses base fs dmg--> so you kinda of lied there, considering u dont have good knowledge on any other class than Dk.
    On that video every enemy takes 20% more dmg ,= 20% faster sw , on map that isnt q2 the sw is 20% slower. Such comparisons are never 100% true due to ingame stats, gameplay , the way the current player plays. Base stats aer never the whole picturem, if not base stats are for flexing and for nipicking.
    Edit: The sw uses a set specifically for map farming that gives him 15% speed and max dmg, this is a very specific set for a specific playstyle so we arent actually comparing classes, because tru comparison will be using the same items, and if sw is on q7 believe me he is dk s lv dmg cuz sw s q7 is the weakest of them all as of now. so Yet again this video isnt Class comparison , its PERSONAL compariso between 4players, whoever refuses this just doesnt want his arguments to goin vain.

    Now on the actual topic--> i think that crafting should be heavily easened , so that its not an opstacle that is balancing the whole game. At the moment noone wants to craft second items or so ( unless u are like me and love trying stuff) and this is a HUGE problem of the game, if crafting is like 1 month work then the game can be balanced easier , more sets to be added and so on. It will make dso s life 10times easier. Crafting is already a non p2w feature so why not make it enjoyable rather than required tedious job?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  20. gfffffgggggfff

    gfffffgggggfff Forum-Apprentice

    69k DK over here, complaining all the time actually
     

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