Mages vs Ranger: Range debate

Discussion in 'Speakers‘ Corner' started by Rev, Jul 12, 2017.

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  1. Rev

    Rev Active Author

    That was not meant to be an ad hom..but revealing how inconsistent rogue07 is and his credibility about his claims on "investing" in a ranger or even his knowledge about the ranger class. Anyways, thanks for the reminder, will stick to the topic.

    All i'm saying is that rangers be given an equal chance to hit their target without having to be bombarded by other range classes before even landing a significant hit. And i am sure mages and dwarfs know this feeling of being hit by the pre194 explosion. The range of EA with the explosion is devastating not necessarily EA itself which only does 125% of damage. Most people died from the 250% itself. The range advantage allows ranged classes to play safer without being put in harms way, therefore becoming unpunished for missing spells. The ranger becomes severely punished for missing due to higher cost, and lower range.
     
  2. Allogeneous

    Allogeneous Team Leader Team Drakensang Online

    My little interjection was not aimed specifically, or even particularly, at you. It was mostly in response to a post in this thread which I deleted.
     
  3. Fugnuts

    Fugnuts Active Author

    Mages are ranged classes.Imagine mind control not working as it is right now.How would a mage put a distance between him and a warrior in pvp for instance? By using 2x teleports you put a small distance between your opponent and you, where u can attack.After that you have to run again until u can increase the gap between your opponent and you.I know this is a mage vs ranger thread but "fixing"that skill will make the mages useless vs warriors.1x teleport doesnt even give u the chance to get away from a warrior when he is using the battle cry.You as a ranger have the adrenaline which helps you. It will be like this...he uses battle cry and dragon skin..you use teleport..he easily catches up with u, stuns u again, you remove the stun with the ice nova ..then he stuns u once more and u are dead as a SW.As a ranger you can get away easily ..he uses battle cry, you use adrenaline and he wont be able to catch up. So that "fix" the mind control is a no go.

    The only things that needs to be fixed for mage skills are the dmg the offensive ones do.Pretty much everyone knows that the mage is the weakest class in PVE but i dont see any of the rangers pointing that out #IncreaseDmgForMageSkillsSoHeWontBeTheWeakestClassIngameAtPveAnymore.

    SWs have the lowest defense among all 4 classes yet all 4 classes have the same or higher dmg than SWs.Why is that?As i said in another thread, when we picked SWs we gave up on defense hoping that we would get higher dmg.Apparently some can have both top defense and top dmg #FixThisToo...


    Q8 set is another good ranger set.The lightning that comes with it its not that bad you know.It does a lot of dmg and most times you can only escape it with teleport.About the 10 fireballs which you get from q7 gloves (useless skill in PvE) i dont mind if it gets removed if it bothers you that much.Matches between mages and rangers usually end very fast...most of the times in under a minute.The mage dies 1hit from 1 EA and the ranger dies after 2-3 fireballs if they are not blocked.

    Also, EA does 2x dmg..so with 1x EA you do more dmg than a SW does with 2-3 fireballs...It does 2xdmg even without having to mark your target..Its like a mage's destruction skill..that one does 750% dmg but with a 1 minute cooldown.
     
    Fynkz likes this.
  4. User330K

    User330K Junior Expert

    This is just the same for rangers too. You have no chance to get farther from a warrior that aproaches you. It has two Quick move skills (jump and slide) beside many slowing and stunning. Archers has only on jump which basically allows to make a little distance, but its animation is quite long, so if the warrior keeps the mouse on the archer, or just slide right after the archer has landed, and give the stun back, they dont even have to guess where that archer is going to land, so already got the stun back.
    Last chance is to use the adrenalin, which most of the time stops you running and rven if luckily you arent bugged and able to run you cant cause even thou you cast it you get the stun back, cause the warrior is already standing in your ass and gives you an iron brow. So now what is the third method to get away? Here you wait and see your character rasped...

    Mages has the jump, which fully charges them so they can cast any spells while archers might be already exhausted.
    Mages teleport and cast ice sphese which is not only has faster animation, but also a counter attack possibility. Try to stun the enemy right after a jump with an archer. Even the ice shoot that freezes has an instant freeze effect, while the archers net has a longer animation, and pretty hard to aim with that in an actual fight. A mage just jumps and freeze.
    Or see the bird. It has a big damage, true, but anyone can run away from it who is not blind. Do you know any other actual stunning skills? Scatter shoot? Thats a joke... Its a mindles even to guess the others life points during a fight to assume it may give stun...


    And for the range - the problem is not the range that the missile has, its the size of the missiles the mages has. That is what makes them able to reach farther. See a hunting arrow, or precision, or even exploding arrow now, they have hitbox smaller than 1 cm on screen while the mages skills at lest 2-2,5 times bigger. The fire ball and magic missile has at lest 3 times bigger hit area. That is what gives the advantage in every area cause that 2-3-4 centimeter hitbox is the same size at the character while casting and on the end of its way. Its easier to hit by a beam without aiming, than with a grill stick....
    But its the same for the dwars big gun shoot. Its hit are is just as big as the fireball, so hits meters longer tha the shoots base range.
     
  5. anolajen

    anolajen Forum-Apprentice

    just note for mind control it isnt clear how it should work ... seems more like unclear tooltip than anything else

    because even immune targets are sucesfully mind controlled .. they get the visible effect for whole duration ... they also explode if you kill them .. same as if they were controlled so spell itself is sucesfully applied to them they just avoid control part by being immune to it not spell itself maybe once for all should someone from bigpoint verify if its bug or intent then they may rework spell or fix tooltip to make it clear

    user : you should try mage a bit ... magic missile requires direct hit its hitbox is even smaller .... fireball si like 1,5x bigger than ea but fly alot slower

    mage own two stuns one ranged one meelee range and two ways to break control ... nova and teleport

    rangers = bird + net ( both ranged btw ) and two ways to break it ... adrenaline + dive wheres the problem ? :D

    also teleport close to ranged isnt so epic idea he can hit you for extreme dmg on close range with explosive arrow even now mage doesnt have any way to deal that much dmg to target thats near
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  6. User330K

    User330K Junior Expert


    Well.... So you say so...

    [EDIT - quoted material removed]

    Sure! , This game kinda turns into a Brasil soap where everyone sees the right way, and everyone knows the right decisions but the author just dont EDIT care and the outcome of an actual 3 seconds interaction can be lenghtened to hundreds of episodes..

    And back to ana... I mean anol:
    Trust me if i started a mage now i would take part on that side :D Who on earth is against himself?

    So if there was an item that could change my class into being a mage I would give it a try. All the items has their different class equal so I see no obstacle in this matter. We just need an item that transfers the character and the items with the right percentage of the stat values. Other games have it so we may get one sooner or later... So everyone could experience how they would stand in their actual build in different classes. Bp is just too ignorant to make it cause it seems more profitable to force players to start new characters and buy the gems ... But it would be a big sale for a term of time. Many would try the most hated classes ;)

    And to forward the #traki line: My story starts back in the days where there were no paralell maps. The only lvl 40 place which actually gave lvl 40 items was the Grimford cave. No item craft, only the items you gained, and only the gems you looted, or bought and the highest was the polished.
    Then after the update which allowed to craft gems we were able to remove and strenghten our characters. By the time I spent farming and reached up and up it became obvious that I wont start an another main character. Since the years can only be bridged by lots and lots of money. Actually the amount of 100K anders cost here approx a quarter of a monthly wage. Is not an option and for me never will be.
    Thats all for the heart ripping part :p

    I tried the mage, with a competitive one back in the lv 45 times thanks to my friend. And after the archer it was pretty clear it needs no aiming at all. Just point the mouse somewhere between you and the enemy and shoot. The skills size was more than enough to land a hit after playing an archer. Mages freezes in pvp is more beneficial than any of the archers skills. Mages needs only damage and speed and everything is solved. Reached farter than the others (then the dwarf had implemented) and the elemental damage ruled far by the physical cause it was the hardest to improve. But it hadnt changed much still the only need is speed and damage. Mostly all the skills a mage has has instant cast, and side effects.
    Archers skills has pretty much no side effects. The hunting arrow slows the moving speed only while the ice missile slows the attacks too which means the enemys damage reduction too. Which is better? Players already running by speed arrows cant hit in straight line carrying a flag in pvp... Only items may give side effect bonuses, but thats not from a main skill like the mages and warriors have.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jul 14, 2017 at 2:45 PM
  7. anolajen

    anolajen Forum-Apprentice

    hmm honestly me ? having bot ranegr and mage of similar strenght so iam bit .. split

    i can guarantee you this isnt gonna happen any trade between characters or transfering is against bp strategy they are greedy and want to squeeze every penny out of you to level other class
    funny fact lvl 45 is completely diferent game 55 there was no q7 no q8 meaning fireball costing alot mana for low damage ... ice missile dealing 1/3rd damage than now hunters spamed 60% dmg skill not spamming 500% dmg skill with highest range in game and faster flight speed than anything mage has lol with faster flight and range .. dks werent immune to stun /slow

    to be honest it sounds like you didnt even pvped at lvl 45 you would never dare to compare it because gameplay changed entirely + no one spamed ice missile skill with 15% attack speed slow wasnt worth it .. instead all stacked attack speed and spamed chain lightning that basically stunlocked you with enought speed
    sadly at times you talking about neither rangers or mages were much relevant ... dks ruled in every point of view now you can 1hit similar 2h knight with damn explosive arrow lol

    yes mage has one medium range instant freeze ... you have two ways to get out of it wheres the reason to complain
    dk can charge you at same range for instant stun as well
     
  8. BigBlue

    BigBlue Forum-Apprentice

    I would like to help wizards and especially you who are with DPS problems, there is no available combo better than this in the game: Explain the basics of how this combination works:

    Sigriss Set modifies an Ice Bullet by multiplying the damage by 3x plus reducing the damage of each hit to 30% Ice Bullet increases ice bullet damage by 25% Reduce up to 30 mana of Ray skill.

    Effect with Set Sigriss, Ice Bale deals 37.5% damage x3 totaling 112.5% damage without enemy frost covered cost 1 essence and does not consume mana, and on effects each firing with sigris set reduces 6 Mana from the next bolt, as the set of modifications to ability to hit 3x each time, for each mana dropped 18 mana from his next Lightning bolt. The maximum damage ability is not (Fireball, Iceball, etc.), but the Lightning.

    Ray 250% + 33% Damage Enraged Enemies Bearach Staff 80% + Damage Enraged Enemies
    Bearach Cross Set = 75% by Radius The Lightning Ability with accumulated joint damage plus proper increase that is built in is thus. 250% + (33% + 80%) 113% = 532.5%

    This is the damage of each Ray with enemy already electrified + 75% which is a proven Cross of Bearach set, cost 3 essence cost 50 mana. By putting this set on as it works, you expend 2 essences firing twice as much Ice Damage deals 112.5% damage x2 = 225% reduced the cost of the next ray from 50 to 20 mana 50-30 saves your mana as it has no cost Skill, dealing damage by equivalent radius 532.5% + 75% by cost of 3 of essence.

    Passive mana regeneration, using the computer management tool, with a base of 125 mana points from your device with an ability to cast 7 spikes in a row without any use for any other combination of abilities. Now the ability of the player to combine this standard combo with the use of skills, destruction, control, and so on. [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    You do not have to complain and want to compare this offensive power for example to mechanics who have significant damage in towers of up to 232% during the 10 seconds costing 100 of steam with essences cost of 8 each tower, white damage without being able to take advantage of yellow damage Critical.
     
  9. EhtovK

    EhtovK Forum Great Master

    Sigh, that's an outdated Wiki picture which displays incorrect data, the bonus from Bearach's set is 50%, check your facts:

    As for this:

    You don't know the correct values of the unique item set and you claim that a combo you completely ignore about as the best one in the game?, give me a break, it is good indeed, and no SW here is asking for a buff nor complaining, right?, but if you think we're almighty because of it, go try it yourself and see.
     
    Gevilson and Fynkz like this.
  10. BigBlue

    BigBlue Forum-Apprentice

    EhtovK , Thanks more is yes the best combination and they have adjusted to 50% and no more the 80% is exactly for being the best possible set, now the magicians who want improvements are hiding these elements because they do not then put the items in question so that everyone sees How much OP are they when compared to those of other classes? Even the 50% aind is much more damage 457.5% and no more 532.5, and should be more adjusted still because it is still very OP.
     
  11. anolajen

    anolajen Forum-Apprentice

    bigblue:
    nope most of your post is wrong its not +80 % or +50% it changes +33% to +50% as ehtovk say so in pratcice its 17% bonus

    meaning lightning strike is 250% * 1,5( electrified) = 375 this is final dmg + 75% withou any interaction from cross = 450% in total

    not to mention using bearach staff prevents you from q7 set that adds also some % to damage ( 22,5-45% bonus depending on playstyle )

    also did you realized that unless they changed it recently bosses cannot be " covered in frost "saying immune instead and giving you no mana reduction at all ?

    considering you trying to make mages look OP you probably play hunter :D lets make it complete 2.0 speed ( lets ignore breakpoints for moment)

    mage 2x ice miss light strike = 225+450= 675% per 1,5sec so 450% dmg for 12,32 mana per second
    ranger past nerf : hunting net = 100% 4x explo arrow 2000% 2 precise shot 600% 7x hunting arrow 462% over 7sec (whole cycle set by net cooldown)
    thats 3162% for 6 concentration over 7sec = 451,7% for 8,5 concentration per sec


    so its 450% dmg for 6,66 mana per second from mage
    vs 451,7%% dmg for 8,5 concentration from ranger

    lets also note that base concentration regeneration is 8/sec .. so both energy usage zero

    also this apply to normal monster fight
    for shielded monster or bosses nothing changes for ranger .... bud mage damage drops to
    420% /sec and mana cost skyrockets to 33,3 mana/sec
    tell me once more how unbalance lightning strike + q8 is please

    not to mention than lightning strike same as frozen sphere realistically deal much less damage than stated %
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017 at 6:48 PM
  12. EhtovK

    EhtovK Forum Great Master

    *450%, you've been told twice, also, I know that you are completely ignorant to the mechanics of the Lightning Strike, as you have shown time and time again with your posts, in case you didn't know, Lightning strike has diminished damage against enemies that are not hit directly in the center of the seal, the ones at the edges will get few% compared to that, you go and try to hit mibile bosses like Bearach, Arachna or Heredur with LS and get direct hits 100% of the time, also the mana reduction from ice missile doesn't work on bosses and a load of event champions, anyone with half a brain switches to magic missile for boss fights.

    In paper the 450% looks great, and it is if you manage with it, but every misplaced LS accounts for puny damage in comparison, almost all the other skills (Charge, Fury of the dragon, both Wild swings, MG turrets, Tesla turrets, Explosive Arrow, Thorns, Scatter shot, etc) deal consistent damage on their areas of effect, the ones that have diminished damage if the enemy not hit directly are the Smash, the Frozen Sphere and the Lightning Strike, sure, OP as hell, if you've no experience whatsoever on a topic, you should think twice before stating something as fact just because it looks good on numbers.

    Incorrect, LS is dealing the correct damage IF you make a direct hit, the one dealing less damage than stated in the tooltip even with direct hits is the frozen sphere, also, if you're gonna make an "analysis" about possible combos you cannot ignore attack speed breakpoints and base them on hypotetical time-to-cast, and shielded monsters DO affect the damage output of ALL classes, if you're gonna do it you gotta do it right.
     
  13. BigBlue

    BigBlue Forum-Apprentice

    This is far from being the best of wizards and still gets hits like this 331k, no one can do that with so little cost, OP magicians. 457%
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  14. EhtovK

    EhtovK Forum Great Master

    Well if you're gonna use "TheWish" on red essences, I hope prototype doesn't mind I use his DK on reds as an example:

    [​IMG]

    [Sarcasm]Smash 240%, 327k, DK OP pls nerf, hurr durr[/Sarcasm]

    I won't even bother on looking for other obviously powerful examples on RAs and SMs, please just stop embarrasing yourself.
     
  15. ..Zexion..

    ..Zexion.. Forum-Apprentice

    Well if you guys are talking about Warriors and Mage's damage, lets take a look on ranger damage
    As you know the EA( explosive arrow) can make 250%+250% damage with 1st hit and explosion.
    So take a look on this print from Zouraris video on dragan where he hits 399k with 1st hit and if he were lucky he would make the same damage with explosion ,and well with q7 buff the EA costs 0, so hmmm show me one warrior or mage that is able to make 800k dmg with 1 skill and that he can spam it for 2 seconds ( now with the nerf)
    [​IMG]


    So don't ask for nerf on any classes, just ask for balance on pvp:
    like for mages removing the q7 buff that makes fireballs to cost like 0 and remove the slowing effect on q8 and i think with mages will be enough to balance the pvp for them.
    And give mages some more damage on thunder to be able to make bosses in 20 seconds like the other classes, because no mage can do it in 20 seconds, you can ask wish for sure he can't without using some mana potions, while all the other classes can
     
  16. BigBlue

    BigBlue Forum-Apprentice

    Sharkarab? No destruction, One skill 2.328.000 all mobs, equates to 6 shots like this from the archer up there, so there is no way to compare the archer there with that other magician.

    [​IMG]
    Mage's OP on game forever.
     
  17. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Inhabitant

    Wow! That is cool:) Spellweavers are great!:)
     
  18. EhtovK

    EhtovK Forum Great Master

    What a pathetic attempt to troll, but oh hell, let's take the bait..., of course destruction deals massive damage, that's why it has 60 seconds cooldown :rolleyes:. Even if one was to use 2x destructions with MC's "astral phenomenon", that's one of the most (if not the most) noob usage of the astral phenomenon. 750%-1500% every 60 seconds, lol, how many 450% LS I can shoot per minute instead?, how many EA can a RA shoot per minute?, how many MG Turrets per minute?, smash?. Also, if you knew the very basics of this game, you'd knew that the variables of crit, crit damage, min-max damage won't allow ANY skill to deal the same damage to all monsters it hits, and you debunk your statement in the very same screenshot you provided, please keep amusing us with your ignorance.
     
    Fynkz likes this.
  19. BigBlue

    BigBlue Forum-Apprentice

    EhtovK
    Do not disguise friend know very well that it is not the 60 seconds to reach a large area of effect as in print greatly reduces the cooling time of the skill in addition to having other means such as two singularities. To give all this damage an archer would need to have 396 points of concentration, yes the wizard class this OP even if you compare against the class that should be near the archer, imagine if you compare the other classes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 1:06 AM
  20. ..Zexion..

    ..Zexion.. Forum-Apprentice


    Well i dont know if you are trolling or not xD
    this is print from maps and well the monsters had 2x armor break, on bosses thats impossible
    so lets say one mage deals like 1 Million damage with aniquilation on boss *2 ( because of the MC) he makes like 2M but after he needs to wait 1 MINUTE to repeat
    While rangers can use Net and shoot 4-5 EA's in a row with the cost of 0000000 conc, and if it is zouraris well 5* 800k :) just do the maths, and dont post this kind of prints while this is a good skill to use once, while EA can be spammed like 50 times before aniquilation is ready to use again :)
     
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