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Suggestion new gear

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by dawmjr, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. dawmjr

    dawmjr Someday Author

    i request, ask for, both base stats, and stats, with gliphs, how is one to know if new gear better,
     
  2. silverseas

    silverseas Forum Commissioner

    Um... just like in the good ol' days, use your brain? :rolleyes: Or if you buy into the CV system, use that?

    Or worse case scenario, toss a coin and wear whatever it tells you?
     
  3. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Or learn the math that goes on behind the scenes and figure it out for yourself.




    Oh wait... it's just me that does that? :oops:
     
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  4. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    Calculating damage is not so easy. Other stats are a bit easier, but having to manually calculate everything every time you collect a new gear, or every time you want to see whether a new piece of gear you're about to craft would be better and how much better, would take too much time and you'd probably make a mistake here and there.

    Yes, it's not straightforward, for example, whether a new torso with 56.250% higher armor value on this item is better than a torso with 9.325% higher armor value. Also, the context of your other gear is important, as both absolute values and % values make more or less difference depending on what other things you're wearing, and what wisdom points and pets you're using.

    The best way would be to use a calculator specifically made for calculating DSO stats. Some time ago, I tried to look for one online, but couldn't find any. So I made my own (only for damage). It worked but it did not take into account certain factors. Some people were nitpicking about it, so I lost my nerve and took it down.

    Recently I've revisited the "project", fixed it, made it better and more detailed, and to answer _Baragain_'s question:

    the thing can now actually calculate HP, armor, and resistance on top of base damage.
    Maybe I should share it one more time soon (perhaps only to be laughed at again, but I swear I just wanted to help :/).
     
  5. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    There are also the subjective elements to that question too. For example, if you are expecting to have to deal with an armor break, the % armor line will be better than the % armor on this item, even if your total armor may be a little lower. But how likely is it that you will have to deal with an armor break factors into that. This is one of those times where you need to go back to Silverseas comment to:
     
    Akageshi likes this.
  6. Zoltan

    Zoltan Junior Expert

    I followed your changes with calculator at the time and thought you perfected it at the end? You encouraged me to make my own calculator and my attempts were less successful. Found I could get close but it always seemed to be a slightly out.
     
  7. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    Back then, the version I shared was flawed. First of all, _Baragain_ was right about one important missing value that was't really missing in the calculation, but it wasn't clear where the user was supposed to fill it in, and the value was % increased damage on weapon items.
    Most of the time you wouldn't even need it if you weren't using Dragan set, Blood Rune weapon, and ..perhaps that's it(?).

    Well later on we got the new wisdom tree, and there is a talent of % increased damage on 1h or 2h weapons. So I've reworked the calculator accordingly. Also, I've added min. and max. damage values, fields for rubies and runes, and 3 more sheets to calculate hp, armor, and resist. I'm sure it's still not perfect, but so far with what equipment I've tried to wear, calculated and compared, it's working fine.

    If by "slightly out" you mean that your result damage values were some 0-10 points off, then I have the same issue. But I guess it's just a rounding problem. Moreover, with let's say 20k dmg, who cares if the calculator returns 20,530 or 20,527, right?
     
    Zoltan likes this.
  8. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I wasn't trying to be a %@#$. I'm simply a perfectionist and was trying to offer constructive criticism. I many have been a smidge abrasive in my execution though... :rolleyes:

    Very much a rounding issue. They gave us an extra decimal place a while back and that is a big help for upping the precision of our calculations. Having 4 to 5 significant digits now means that our precision should be accurate at least to ~±10 on any 5 digit stat (damage, crit, armor, etc) and ~±100 on any six digit stat (HP and maybe damage with reds). That said, often the ups and downs of the 4th decimal place that we can't see cancel out and leave us super close to the displayed value on the stats page.
     
    Akageshi likes this.
  9. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    I overreacted. I guess I met a bunch of mean people here and on my language forum who would reject everything just because... I just went mad. Banning me from here didn't help much back then :D

    To stay on topic,
    adding armor value and resistance values to the calculator, I couldn't figure out how the result of absolute value gets translated into the % value :/ It's much better to see how many % decreased is the damage taken. How does the game calculate a 23055 armor as 78.27% damage reduction?

    I tried a simple way which doesn't work of course:

    If 23055 means 78.27%,
    then 1% = 23055 / 78.27​
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  10. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    http://drakensangonline.wikia.com/wiki/Calculations

    P.S. The way I calculated that a long time ago was by generating a huge table of values with the absolute stat and the reduction. I graphed them and then looked for a curve fit and eventually learned how to identify the constant based on level and difficulty. Back then, block strength, block rate, and crit used to work off these basic curves too. Now it is just armor and resistance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  11. dawmjr

    dawmjr Someday Author

    i have one and half hour a day to play game, i do not have time to figure, if i move gems, gliphs , is this better, you obviosly, is all you do, is math, EDIT , i play a game , couple hours a day, for relax, i do not wish need calculater all the time, i asked mods, a simple question, i do not need your EDIT
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  12. dkarl

    dkarl Forum Connoisseur

    BP created the CVS calculation a couple years back to allow us to compare an individual item to the equivalent item we're wearing at the moment. Unfortunately, the basis of calculations wasn't very well thought through by the devs, so the CVS values aren't very accurate in truly assessing the value of any given item.

    BP chooses to not disclose their proprietary logic on virtually anything in the game. Forum mods are unpaid volunteers, players who sometimes get a few hints from the devs, but only bits and pieces the devs choose to divulge; their chief functions are to monitor the threads here, keep conversations from raging out of control, and to provide the devs some of our feedback and concerns.

    In addition, some players who enjoy doing analysis have attempted to detect and recreate the logic and calculations behind many aspects of the system, even building their own calculation spreadsheets. If you search through the forum history, you'll find various references to these external files. Player input is the best and only response we're going to get on most questions, including yours.

    Yes, some voices on this message board are more sarcastic than others. I advise you to ignore the attitude and appreciate the information they try to provide.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  13. Akageshi

    Akageshi Board Analyst

    The CV value is just good for nothing :/ You'd need more than one number to reflect your overall power, at least one representing your overall offensive number, and another one representing your defense. We discussed this before on this board, and someone back then mentioned that devs said they don't want to have more values of this kind displayed as it would be confusing. I'm not sure about that :D

    What might be an interesting feature, would be an option to try what the setup you'd like to use would do with your stats. So you could see the difference between your current setup and the one you're thinking of making.
    I assume it'd be quite a complicated thing to pull off.

    I'll try to deliver the calculator I talked about before. There's a problem that as it is not an in-game tool, it has to be filled with your current values and you have to copy them from your gear description boxes manually :/ Still, the thing keeps helping me! Unlike the CV thing that is entirely useless...
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Wow... that escalated quickly... I guess that is what I get for joking with a forum noob who hasn't leveled up enough to unlock a sense of humor.

    Should I quote any of the many times that the mods have said something to the effect of "if you don't want an answer from your fellow players, don't post it on the forums"?

    And go questing for a sense of humor... those really come in handy on the internet. I never leave Kingshill without it.
     
  15. dawmjr

    dawmjr Someday Author

    sorry, for all, i will do best i can.


    --- MERGED ---


    on internet is hard to see real , i read what i read, sorry if took something wrong,
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jan 16, 2019

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