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Producer Dialogue: Cunning Plans

Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by RickTalrok, Jul 22, 2014.

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  1. Darwarren

    Darwarren Count Count

    Hey, Rick,
    Thanks for all the progress. The pace seems uneven, with all the wild fires going on here and there, but overall things actually seem to be improving.
     
  2. fourtwenty68

    fourtwenty68 Board Analyst

    could u fix the text for Thabo Npc?
    it reads for blackborg,that u cant get into Varholm,this should be replaced to read-New moon.
    and varholm should say Full moon.
     
    jthames likes this.
  3. KurtBlack

    KurtBlack Forum-Greenhorn

    Hello to everyone,
    I will try to make this as short as possible but I can't promise anything.

    So first of all, I would like to start by talking about my characters and my experience in the game.
    I have played every class except the steam mech. recently on different stages of the 45 level however my most advanced one is my ranger. On the previously mentioned I have 3.1m points of fame which makes my Flag Bear close to a Marshal - this is just to state the obvious (my class and experience). I can provide any statistic of my character if needed
    I would like to touch on the sensitive subject of armour break for rangers and I will mostly talk from my experience. I've been meaning to write something amongst those lines for some time and the thing that finally encouraged me to do it was today's Twitch broadcast. To be exact one question that Greg responded regarding to armour break.

    So, Greg if I’m not mistaken said that it would disturbed the balance between classes - I would like to disagree with this statement as I find myself with completely different opinion. Playing an end level character leaves the "game" to two areas: PVE and PVP

    First - PVP
    Greg was right in saying that armour break for archer inside the PVP area would make him slightly to powerful and I fully agree with this - I think that ranger is an excellent class for Player versus Player "things" and I understand that class need to differ – I think they do right now. For what I've observed mage is a really mobile class (compare Ranger jump and Spell waver portal to see what I mean by that), Dragonknight can stand more damage than other classes (Dragon skin, healings etc.) and the Ranger part was already explained by Greg on the Twitch. This is however giving actual 45 level tier - with the 50 level skills this should not be an issues because other classes will also gain new skill balancing it. Meaning that 45lvl = no armour break but 50lvl = armour break.

    Second - PVE
    Unfortunately, in this case there is a real issue in the class balance and I'm really confused why it haven't been addressed earlier. PVE is split into (at least by my) into bosses, farm, events and glyphs.

    Why does lack of armour break makes ranger disadvantaged against other classes? Well, it doesn't to be honest as the bosses like Gorga, Kali, Mortis or Destructor are immune to such things - but linking to the event side - Fake Gnob which is actually considered as kind-of-sort-of boss is not immune so this begins things like: "slot (place in the group) for a mage" and it's pretty clear that an archer is not welcomed as much. I will give a practical example for it from today:
    During the second challenge we started to kill Gnob in group of 1 knight, 1 mage and 1 me-ranger - it didn't take us over 100 essence to kill him using both armour breaks from mage and knight, then after few runs we were left by the knight and have invited another mage. The result was that I used over 400 of essence. I'm kind of afraid to think how much I would have to spend to kill him on my own. Now, I'm sure that everyone had the essence in both times as they’re people that I play with for few good years.
    You may think that this isn't as much but multiply it by at least 10 times (to finish the challenge we 'need' to kill Gnob couple times) and it will show you why there is no demand for rangers inside the group as well as how it leaves this class on disadvantage.

    Secondly, farm - by "farm" I mostly mean maps like q3. As a ranger I've been kicked from the random-town-group many times - people would just kick me out - without knowing my character, play style - all they seen was my class and level. Now, I’m sure that it happens also to other classes but I think I'm safe making the assumption that it happens more often for us. Also if you look on the chat in the game the things you can see are: "need mage for xx"; "one slot for tank"; "mortis slot for dk or mage". I've never heard anyone saying: "1 slot for ranger" nor did anyone who I asked seen such thing. I find that finding a group is almost impossible or it takes hours to get to any group without players below 45 level or to groups that already have 3 archers - and hey! You’re the 4-th say Hi.
    This is an issue because of the lack in armour break - even my guild friends say that they would rather invite weak mage than a ranger (This wasn’t regarding me). It's not all that bad - from what I heard from my friend - he's best vision of a team is 2 mages, 1 steam mech., me (not regarding to it as a ranger but my exact character) and him - dragonknight.

    Also, Events - as mentioned above - bosses, or mini bosses - they are easier and quicker to kill with the combination of armour breaks - this is a combination of farm and bosses described above.

    And finally, glyphs. Gathering them on m2 q6 from 5 knights - ranger is not someone that is essential which means that you depend on others completely so I would say it is harder for ranger in that regard as well.

    The above statements are only my experience, I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one stating something similar as I frequently read forums - saying that - I'm in guild that helps me with those so it's not like ranger is some strange disease and everyone avoids him but I think everyone encounter with similar treatment of rangers and it should be addressed.

    So in the conclusion of this question:
    On the 50 level ranger will not be overpowered on PVP giving that every class will receive something new and I think it should be the focus to make it as fair as possible to create such skills rather than refusing ranger armour break which will help to balance PVE and patch some of issues that rangers have compering others in this case.
    Now, I'm not here to discuss which class is the best, worst, which is overpowered and any of that I just want to discuss issue of lack armour break for the only class that doesn't have the luxury of owning it. All classes have skills that breaks armour, even the Steam mech. which is new character got it while archer still wondered around world without. This is something like jump or main attack - everyone has it in one form or another. Imagine that you're playing class without jump and you're on map 2 of q6 - there is a place when most of players usually jump - wouldn't you mind going around the map to get to the rest of group or would you make them go the other way? This is my point but there is no other way for ranger in that instance.

    Yes, I know that mage for example doesn't have the healing skill or one that increases speed of travel - and you know? I say fine - if they want it - let them have it, at the end they will play this class and use this skill and not me. I don't mind any idea for other classes because I'm not as familiar with them as person playing it as the main character and if it's not something like immortality or killing everything on the map I don't mind. I assure you that armour break is not such a thing for rangers since we already see it in action using other classes armour breaks - rangers are using it for a long time now, you know? Additionally, Steam mech. and dragonknight stun with their armour break while mage slower them down - I'm fine with just simple armour break - nothing additional.
    And to be honest, I don't mind the form that I could receive it. If it will be a skill coming out with the 50 level expansion - fine, I'm very very happy. If not - could you please include it for Level 45 fame three as an option that would also work on PVE? I wouldn't mind that, having motivation for playing on PVP and it would not affect balance in PVP with other classes having their own (well, If we will skip the fact that 45 level on this tree would effect it already without any skill - but it will still appear, right?) since they’re wouldn't be a lot of players owning so much fame - and if they did this would make perfect sense to make a powerful skill for next talent or skill on the end and other classes would also have something in this place.

    To be honest I’ve been thinking about deleting my ranger if even after 50 levels I can't get a basic skill since the content expansion doesn't come around every week and I'm quite tired of being liability to my friends (see example with the Fake Gnob above) even if they don't say it at loud, well nobody does - right? As I said above I have few other characters on this level but I wouldn't play them as my main since giving the amount of work that I did for my ranger it just wouldn't work for me. Although I probably won't do it anyway knowing myself.
    So, at the end of this too long post - please, consider giving break armour to the ranger - never mind the form - if it's a skill or a talent from fame three, you can make it hard to get but at least give the option to ranger. This isn't a proposition or anything like that, it's just something that I want to bring to the focus.

    Thank you in advance for your time reading this,
    Kurt
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    -{Gabriel}- likes this.
  4. Dragonnns

    Dragonnns Board Veteran

    While watching the Twitch session and listening to Greg talk about level 50 skills, I kept thinking...why not give each class something they don't have rather than adding to what they do.

    SW would get some kind of healing (either themselves or another player).
    DK would get some kind of ranged attack (boomerangs? bolos? throwing stars?)
    RA would get an armor break with or without added benefits as recommended above (maybe another kind of trap or snare?).
    SM would get something other than a turret (maybe a pack of buzz saws or a cloud of noxious fumes?).
     
  5. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    There is nothing to be fixed.
    Full/New Moon is name of a event ... Varholm and Blackborg are map(location) names.
     
  6. fourtwenty68

    fourtwenty68 Board Analyst

    why in the,,would u say that?.only reason to go to blackborg is new moon event.
    but how many times do people ask which event it is? or sometimes forget for some unknown reason
    if adding a description that says :this is for new moon" is such an upset,im sorry for bringing it up.
    but more info is needed for these things.ask anyone.
     
    _G_R_A_M_P_S_ likes this.
  7. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Those two maps are accessible even when no event is available.
    Changing the description to New/Full Moon will be misleading indeed ... since you can enter those maps (for wood/silver essences) even when there is no event. Besides ... there are two maps for each (day/night).
     
  8. AmerickaNindza

    AmerickaNindza Junior Expert

    those people are just to lazy to check on calendar or simply pay a visit to a wiki. renaming would only make confusion for players who already are use to it. that change would be totally unnecesery.
     
  9. fourtwenty68

    fourtwenty68 Board Analyst

    oh good,so your saying Less information is Better.because new people should not have the info.because i already know what map is for what. lol
    and it would confuse the Vet players if they added (this is for this event).because they are use to it??how would it confuse them?
    unnecessary information,haha
    misleading,haha
    lazy,ha
    whats so misleading when u need wood for newmoon and silver for full moon?
    try again!
    do u all just go in these maps and collect wood n silver for nothing? um no.
    still need more info on little things.
    pffft.
     
  10. DesertKoala

    DesertKoala Forum Pro

    Hi AmerickhaNindza,

    No. I play the game daily and still get confused on which map to load for the moon events. It's not lazy. I just have other things I'm thinking about such as what time is my next conference call, do my kids have swim lessons tonight, or did I remember to record Vikings. I'm guessing other folks would also appreciate a minor tip within the frag that says "Full Moon event compatible." or "New Moon event compatible". I realize you can farm it outside of the Event but this additional text wouldn't cause any harm.

    Thanks,
    Tregs

    -------------

    Don't worry fourtwenty68 too much about Traki's comments. He is a highly knowledgeable player and contributor but his writing style always seems like a desperate beg for everyone to say 'you are so smart'.

    Traki, please just relax man. Have fun.
     
  11. motorola11

    motorola11 Forum-Apprentice

    This game becomes the first frustrating and am slowly losing my nerves, first we are lying to compensate for 20-23 March., now appear bug for the group when can not complete event (I think you are doing this on purpose).
     
    9ndrei likes this.
  12. 9ndrei

    9ndrei Forum Pro

    I had the same thought.. but I can't accept they will go to that length to make players pay to finish the event. The timing is questionable at least.. and the previous Full Moon event with the same grouping bug looks more and more like a test-run.

    If I had my tin-foil cap on, I would shout a strong and sturdy YES, THEY ARE DOING IT ON PURPOSE.

    ..and I'm almost ready to put the cap on.
     
  13. AmerickaNindza

    AmerickaNindza Junior Expert

    Blackborg is for New moon, Varholm is for full moon... i dont understand why is this so hard to remmember o.0 you can farm 15 silver scrolls in 1 hour. and you can do 3000 woods in 2-3 hours. do it 1-2 days before event starts. you dont need to go daily farm for those events omg. you are just trying to make meaningless changes that are tottaly unnecesery..
     
    Mario_Boss likes this.
  14. fourtwenty68

    fourtwenty68 Board Analyst

    u can add it to the (meaningless changes) patches list lol
     
  15. MegaNuker

    MegaNuker Forum Ambassador

    Maybe something that would help and remove confusion would be adding Silver Essences icon to Varholm and the fairy wood icon to Blackborg in the npc menus.

    My 2 cents.

    Rangers are good adding armor break would make them unbalanced and then other classes would want something more powerful. If you choose Ranger for a reason then that reason has not changed. Asking for mage for mortis is not because of armor breaks but for mind control and other damage spells.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  16. Trailboss1

    Trailboss1 Forum Mogul

    I actually agree with ya, fourtwenty. Atleast have the events in () next to the 2 map names. As far as the calender, it hardly ever says what it needs to say
     
  17. Sid

    Sid Forum-Apprentice


    On that note, how wud u like to explain why the capes drop soooo sooo less?
    Isnt that to make player scream n do more farming and while doing so, end up buying stuff for that!
    Also, right now the bug is going on again, when this miserable event is nearing its end and the players are trying to get their job done, why do the devs test their bugs on a live server? why not when the events are not running? are they gonna compensate by giving more twerking drakaty emotes?
    or are they going to understand the situation and atleast add 2 more days to the event cycle?
    But ofcourse they cant do that. Cuz New Moon is up next.
    So the frustrated free as well as p2p players are going to have to settle with Greg's twerking emotes.
     
  18. 9ndrei

    9ndrei Forum Pro

    About the capes, I don't know what to tell you. I thought it was missing altogether since I got my 1st one a few days ago. =) The second one came yesterday, and I'd like to add I've done Dragan more than 150 times.
     
  19. awaroa

    awaroa Advanced

    i guess it is a lack of luck factor. i did 50 runs and got 12 capes and had 4 from last event. So i guess its a combi of luck and patience if not in this event then in next event. just saying.
    I think its not good if all players get all items all the time it needs to be difficult

    ---------MERGED---------

    i think people may forget if they dont get into the story and if they dont have basic cultish knowledge. Like witches meet on a new moon and people become werewolves on a full moon. Witches need wood to cook up potions. And we need silver bullets or silver knives to kill werewolves.
    So actually there is nothing to remember just to know facts
    new moon - witches meet - make fires so need wood
    full moon - were wolves are out - need silver to kill them
    but hay i am all for a ingame tips menu solong it can be turned of or on in settings
     
    Last edited by moderator: Apr 27, 2015
  20. lewcar

    lewcar Padavan

    Regarding the Run speed of the mobs in Lortac (seen in last Twitch), please don't slow them down lol Right now we need a new challenge desperately, rather then slapping extra hp, armor, damage on mobs. Make them attack fast, move fast.. makes you feel like your really playing the game again and have to use 'skill' and awareness to beat it.

    Add random enchants, attacks, speeds - increase variability in the playing experience, that's what players love and keeps them playing and wanting to progress their characters to meet the new challenge.

    P.s. Making a challenge suitable for f2p and p2p (+players at different power levels/progression), would benefit from the aforementioned mob characteristics (i.e not just hp and damage), since it relies more on playing skill than power, which can be attained from a veteran or a payer. Thanks
     
    BigPapa, thedarkestlight and jayr3d like this.
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