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PvP Suggestion

Discussion in 'PvP (Player vs. Player)' started by -amaliada-, Jul 2, 2019.

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  1. -amaliada-

    -amaliada- Forum-Greenhorn

    Introduction.
    Here is the wiki poll that was running for 6-7 months.
    [​IMG]
    The players opinion is clear.
    Here are the wiki stats (WAM) regarding the activity and views of the drakensang wikis. Comparing 20 December 2018 - 28 June 2019, more than half a year after the pvp changes were implemented.
    [​IMG]
    https://community.fandom.com/wiki/WAM?verticalId=0&langCode=&date=1545267600&searchPhrase=drakensang
    [​IMG]
    https://community.fandom.com/wiki/WAM?verticalId=0&langCode=&date=1561680000&searchPhrase=drakensang
    Here is a recent pic of the daily views of the english wiki.
    [​IMG]
    As you can see, there are 5k views/day on average. Unfortunately, this admin wiki feature shows only the last 7 days, so I can't provide you with the photo of the views of December 2018 but as the other admins in the wiki can confirm the average was about 9k-10k views/day.
    Now, there are only 2 possible conclusions from this:
    A) The wiki editors are doing a terrible job and the wikis have nothing to offer (which I assure you is not the case). or
    B) People are quitting the game thanks to the PvP changes.

    General PvP Feedback: Too slow, Uninteresting, Unbalanced, Near 0 connection to PvE, No customizability of char/items, MOBA-like and not MMORPG-like etc.
    Of these perhaps the most serious is the lack of connection between pve and pvp. There were many players who were motivated to play pve mainly because they wanted to be competitive in the arena. You have in one stroke taken this away and lost all these players who now see no reason to grind endlessly for no better reward than to kill the end boss a few seconds faster or empty a dungeon in record time.
    It is no secret that most people dislike the arena that you have implemented, all you need to do is check the feedback in the forums or in discord.
    Now, the main complaints with the previous version of the arena were "1-hit arena" & "Please fix X/Z bug"
    To combat "1-hit arena" you decided to create a 99% gearless version by nullifying the stats of all players. That was unnecessary.
    As most of us had already found out, playing with a 1h + Shield setup was preventing the "1-hit" issue and actually made the arena enjoyable. The only unfairness were the bugs.
    Problem was, that most people didn't have time/resources/cores to craft a PvP shield setup. So they kept on playing arena with 2h-farm no defence setups and ended up complaining to "fix the arena".

    My suggestion is that you bring the previous version of the arena back.
    The old issue of it being difficult to create an 1h+Shield setup is now nonexistent since it is currently very easy to make 4x gold old enchantments equipment. Literally EVERYONE can make it with minimal effort.
    If the old arena were to return any sensible player would use a shield setup to prevent being 1 shotted.
    The only difference between an old player and a new one would be the 20% difference between platinum and golden enchantments + the difference of the gems/runes.
    Note: Should you decide to once again activate the gems/runes in the arena you could nullify the difference between grey/green/blue royal gems, making them all grey-valued (arena only)
    and halve the runes values (arena only) so as not to create a huge gap between older/newer players and avoid cries of unfairness and lack of balance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  2. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Dude ... you are wasting your time in vain like I did. No serious suggestion has ever changed their mind.
    I still stand to my suggestion https://drakensangonline.fandom.com/wiki/PvP_Gear_and_balance_proposal with only addition in the gems section be
    since at the time I was making the suggestion I wasn't aware of their intention to change the gems.

    As for the game community and players ... what else needs to be added. Just look at the Russian community ... they are the biggest and most organized community in the game ... yet they are in serious decline. Which only speaks about the players in the game.

    PvP has always been the driving engine in this game. Now I can barely find duel opponents for the daily.
    That is why the player base is shrinked so much ...
     
    MikeyMetro and ΣMiwel like this.
  3. Zardast

    Zardast Forum-Apprentice

    A rather meaningless introduction or a badly chosen period to use it. The changes described in the wiki have not (yet) been implemented or the exact opposite from what is described has happened - with the only exception of the 2-hour default mode. So why the hell did you use it for.
    If I wanted to troll you (which I want :) ) I would say that the 962 people who voted NO are 90% happy since almost none of the poll's proposed changes has realized for the last several months. As a matter of fact, the arena will never be as much non-p2w/skill-based again as it is now (for what it's worth).

    As for the rest of your complaints you answered yourself
    . GG :)

    [This is just my impression for the post - I am not saying arena should stay like it is forever- waiting for the future PvP rework- I hope they will make the right choices]
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  4. -amaliada-

    -amaliada- Forum-Greenhorn

    No, they are not happy, not in the slightest... Did you even read the rest of the introduction?!
    The part with the wiki stats (WAM) / views per day stats screams that the game has lost half of its players!

    When I started editing the wiki, 5 years ago, the wiki received 20k views/day on a normal day with its' peak being 40k+ whenever we had a big event (such as dragan).
    It took 5 years for the daily views to be decreased to 10k/day....
    But it only took 6 months for this number to be reduced to 5k/day, all because the devs decided it was a bright idea to ignore the players opinion.
    Do you follow the math?
    From 20k -->10k (50% reduction) in 5 years.
    From 10k --> 5k (50% reduction) in 6 months.


    Ah, keep in mind that applies only to the English speaking players.
    The Russian players are at an even worse fate...
    The English wiki lost 10 points in WAM which is half of its viewers... while the Russian wiki has lost 32.5 points in WAM which I don't even have any idea how many viewers it is (since I am not an admin there). Perhaps MENTOL can come over here and inform us.

    Don't believe me? Just visit the link, change it to any previous date and see for yourself.
    https://community.fandom.com/wiki/WAM?verticalId=0&langCode=&date=1545267600&searchPhrase=drakensang

    At the time, people didn't have the resources to do that. Now, everybody is rich in terms of enchantments, any random craft or drop from the ground and you can make a perfect 4x golden enchantment item. Could you do that in the past? No.

    I answered you with evidence and facts... not with a wild guess from my imagination that "perhaps 90% of the people are happy with the changes".
    I hope you will do the same in your next reply.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  5. pisellone

    pisellone Forum-Greenhorn

    Let's hope they'll start following us after these numbers… (even if i'm dubious)

    well guys…. it is not like this. i had a strong char but i was tired to play Always same things so i started another one. Thinking the same as you i started trying random crafting wasting thousands of golds and still nothing from random crafting…. do not say these kind of things which do not correspond to reality. thanks
     
  6. Zardast

    Zardast Forum-Apprentice

    As I said I just challenged the quality of your arguements, not the essence of your post. And I did not make a wild guess , only a joke (not for you apparently) which comes as a conclusion from your introduction.

    About the WAM Score (where you compare Christmas holiday with student exams/summer vacation period - not an equal comparison perhaps) and the wiki views ( which gives evidence about your wiki firstly and how exactly you connect this with pvp only and not platinum spells for example which is also big I cannot answer and noone really can including you) I will accept there is a trend. I know players who lost interest myself, these numbers are not an unexpected surprise.
    But now, after 5 years ,we learn this:
    So..all those 5 years that the views were steadily dropping you didnt try to say something like :''Hey guys maybe you should change something , this is not looking good '' But you had your gems & runes in arena so why bother...maybe . But now that the gems are gone , now its not ok anymore right? I apologise , I know I might sound unfair but your reaction to your math above might have also been unfair.

    As for your proposal,
    Is this a joke? Easy gold enchantments I could accept but platinums in arena? 20% difference in every slot plus the gems and runes ?? This is not a proposal, this the worst nightmare of 95% of the player base :)
    What comes to mind is that Divinefury ( a very good display of top pvp-build mage last year) wrote somewhere (youtube maybe) that it took him 2 or 3 years to play arena because he was farming for his build (and boy he farmed..)...this is just xoxoxox boring...you expect the wiki views will rise this way?

    I would go for the middle ground : not 3 'lovely' *cough*cough years (or a suitcase of money) to make a pvp-build for god's sake. And yes since this is an rpg not just a week or a month to make a pvp-build with minimal choices for customisation like we have today. Make a system that takes players about 6 months and surely less than a year (and no I dont mean 24/7 :) ) to be able to compete in constructed arena where people can differentiate their builds. As I said, I hope what the developers are preparing will be great.

    PS: About - this is an rpg- arguement, I dont think that there is any popular/succesful mmorpg today (not browser/facebook little craps) that does not have some sort of scaling - equalization in its constructed pvp (arena). Maybe we should see the bigger picture.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  7. -amaliada-

    -amaliada- Forum-Greenhorn

    I thought about this as well, so I compared the previous years as well, there was max 2-5 points decrease on the regular (non big event) days for the wikis between the Christmas holidays / summer vacation period. This is why I provided the links, for people to look with their own eyes. There was never such a huge sudden drop on both the english and especially for the russian wiki.

    Perhaps it has nothing to do with it, perhaps it has to do with the platinum enchantments as you say, or some other PvE reason, I guess we can never truly know...
    But, there had been PvE changes all the time since the beggining of the game, none of them caused a massive exodus of players... at everytime it was X players didn't like the changes and stopped, Z players loved the changes and returned back after a long absence. You can check yourself, after each big expansion of the game, we had an increase in WAM score, whereas now, it's a huge drop.
    This doesn't seem random to me.

    There was no reason to complain at anything at the time, the decrease was not sudden, it was slow and normal.

    The views/player base are steadily dropping on all games, no matter what we do, people do lose interest. Games are getting boring after a while. This is Bigpoint's job, to bring in new players and keep them interested... perhaps you could say they were not so successful.

    Btw, there was another big decrease (not as big now) in wiki views as well, when the American servers had connectivity issues. A lot of people were complaining at the time as well (and rightly so, they couldn't play).

    If you are to compare a full 4x max-golden player to a full 4x max-platinum you would get a 20% difference which if you come to think of it, it's not even so much by older standards.
    Now, there are not so many full 4x platinum players, it's hard to do it, and you don't have to. But there are a lot of full 4x golden players, a lot of them with hybrids 2x platinum-2x golden items (or even some 3x plat-1x gold) on the items that make a big difference (e.g. weapon)
    So, in total the average difference of a player with 4x golden is about 10% vs a half-plat/half-gold player. In my opinion it's not a huge difference, I don't see the problem. If you are skilled, you can outmatch a 10% stronger char than you.

    And no, you don't need 3 years to make a pvp build anymore, more like 1-6 months, depending on how much you play, how lucky you are at crafting, whether you actually know how to properly craft and ofc how high you set your standards.
    We agree on this one, my proposition actually fits this if you come to think of it.

    The problem is that they haven't introduced the "new system". If they had we wouldn't be having this conversation. They have just removed the previous one.
    What we have now is hardly an arena.
    Would have been way better if they had left PvP the way it was up until they have the "new system" ready.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    Zardast likes this.
  8. Dragenstein

    Dragenstein Padavan

    I have a char in each class. My main char is 6 years old. I can't win a match with any of my chars - LOL! PVP is as bad now as it ever was. It's always been the same mismatch problem. I'll never beat a grand marshal with a PVE char.

    I'm gonna say it AGAIN. My lv 50 char gets matches with lv 55 chars. I literally can't do any damage to these chars. But then they make PVP a daily challenge so that I have to play PVP. It's just WRONG.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  9. ПолнаяЛуна

    ПолнаяЛуна Forum Commissioner

    Just want to apologize for your English, as your language is not native for me.

    Our Russian-language forum will soon cease to exist, and we will "move" to the "ghetto" reserved for us, which is located on your English-language forum. If you think that the above-mentioned concept of "ghetto" is not correct, then offer your own.

    I, as a player who has long played in the DSO, do not like the changes that swept through the world of Doria. Entering grades things, runes, transferring enchantments, seeds: strengthening, soul, first principles, matter, any grass you want to cut with a sickle for half an hour (warriors Doria is so weak, I can't chop it down with one precise movement). This made the game very difficult, especially for beginners. I'm not particularly keen on spending weeks farming seeds in Parallel Worlds either. For the same time, I can go through several games! All salt of any online game, including DSO, is Pvp. What did you do with the Pvp, I ask you? Stones, power-UPS that give sets, magic in things no longer work in the arena! There is no reason to buy in-game currency for real money, when you can go get a rag 7 - 8 grade and pick it up. No money from the players-no development of the game, including Pvp.
     
    Existentialist likes this.
  10. Dragenstein

    Dragenstein Padavan

    I've been playing this game on and off for 6 years. My biggest problem with PVP as a DK is the other players run away from me too fast. I think run speed should be equalized. I get spammed with ranged attacks and have no way to fight back. I have characters in all 4 classes. I laugh every time I play PVP with the other characters as they get one-shotted by grand marshals. I still think PVP should not be part of the daily challenges.
     

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